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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think this is why the high street is failing?

614 replies

MiamiWindMachine · 14/08/2024 11:03

I’m off on holiday in a couple of days, so thought I’d go up to the big shopping centre for a couple of last minute things.

In the massive H&M, all the tills bar one had been converted to self-service. The ones on the floor I was on were ALL closed. I went down to the lower floor and there was a huge queue, because no one could work out the machines. There was a step to remove security tags, and people couldn’t work out whether this was only for those plastic tags or if there was some flag on the barcodes for lower value items. Someone else was trying to process a return via these tills. When a member of staff eventually appeared, she confirmed returns could only be processed at a manned till. The customer pointed out that there were no manned tills. The staff member had no idea who to ask about it, then disappeared to find someone, so the queue was getting even longer.

I was on the way out about 15 minutes before closing time and went past M&S. I thought “I wonder if the Bureau de Change is still open” and went to check. The woman saw me approach and had a pained look on her face, saying “Arrgghh, I’ve just cashed uuuppp!” I was a bit taken aback, but said “Oh well, never mind. What time do you close, for future reference?” She then reluctantly admitted that she was supposed to be open until 8, but said “But I do start cashing up at around 7.30”. I was about to ask why when she started saying, “It’s fine; I’ll do it, I’ll do it”, like she was doing me a massive favour. I tried to pay on Revolut and she said “We can’t take those cards!”, as if it was somehow obvious. I asked about Apple Pay and she said, “No, it has to be a proper bank card or credit card”. I therefore went to pay with my credit card and she said, “You do know we have to charge a fee for these, don’t you?” I said I didn’t have a choice given she’d rejected two other payment methods.

I then went down to foods to grab a ready meal and some wine. I went to a manned till as I had alcohol and the girl said, “Oh, could you go to the self-service? It’s just that I’m closing this one”. I asked about the alcohol and she said, “I can approve that from here; it’s just that it’s easier for me”.

I feel like we’re constantly told in the media “Use it or lose it” re: the high street; how sad it would be if we lost the personal touch. From what I could see yesterday, one store has done everything possible to eliminate personal interaction, while in the other, the staff are more bothered about their convenience than the customers’. Is it any wonder that people would rather click a couple of buttons to get something delivered?

OP posts:
Iasonnas · 14/08/2024 20:44

"I like to have some cash at least. You never know if everywhere will take cards."

🤣 you withdraw it from the machine in the foreign country not buy it here using a Revolut which she can't accept anyway.

Why would you go to the effort of getting a Revolut card for travel and then literally do yourself out of a decent exchange rate? Fucking bonkers

Iasonnas · 14/08/2024 20:40

"Or order in a number of sizes and have to send the others back. Which involves walking into town to the post office."

They collect from your door now. For free, no printer required

HotCrossBunplease · 14/08/2024 20:37

Haven’t read the whole thread but just to counteract all the doom and gloom:

I had a lovely experience in my local Oliver Bonas the other day, all sizes in all their clothes, a lovely lady serving who let me stash a heavy bag of books behind the counter while I was browsing and advised me to pick smaller sizes as they came up large- she was spot on. Came to check I had all I needed in the fitting room and generally could not have been more helpful. (Zone 3 suburban London)

I also had a good experience in a branch of Jones the Bootmaker recently. (City of London, office worker clientele)

I agree that shopping is alive and well in the big shiny new malls, also places like Clark’s Village in Street (Somerset) are pleasant to go to.

On the other hand I am sure I am now known by the staff of our local Sainsbury’s as “that woman who lost her shit over the self service checkout”. A long story involving yellow-stickered hot cross buns. Not my finest hour.

BobnLen · 14/08/2024 20:22

IdLikeToBeAFraser · 14/08/2024 20:15

Yes, bit they can move to warehouses and in some places do. Can also handle logistics etc. Don't get me wrong, I am not saying that they want to abandon bricks and mortar stores, I am just making the point that they don't need to attract more people to the actual stores... that isn't their business model anymore.

Do you live in London that they use warehouses for Sainsbury's, mine just comes from local store, I used them quite recently as I had a free delivery offer.

Elphame · 14/08/2024 20:22

I've given in after too many abortive visits to the city centre and coming home empty handed because the shops didn't have anything I wanted in my size. Having to pay extra for car parking because my car happens to be 12 years old is just the final kick in the teeth. Online it is from now on.

Spend half a day searching for a small basket in a specific size in town (probably unsuccessfully) or just one click on Amazon? No contest.

DickEmery · 14/08/2024 20:20

Self service might save some money on wages but it's losing loads due to theft. There are some stores in some neighbourhoods where shoplifting is just what everyone does.

I find shopping quite alienating these days. Tbh I've never really seen it as a leisure pursuit so I'm not a key demographic for retailers but now it is actively unpleasant. Self service tills are grubby , quite often actually dirty. They fuck up a lot. Prices ping around so much that often the shelf ticket price is completely wrong. Paying for bags grinds my gears too especially now they're charging 50p + for them when shopping is expensive anyway. Opening hours are unreliable, staff are few and far between. Half the stock is online only. You need a loyalty card to get decent prices, which is yet another layer of faff on top of bring your bags, scan your stuff, pack your stuff etc. It all just seems a bit jaded.

HotCrossBunplease · 14/08/2024 20:17

Nanana1 · 14/08/2024 11:20

@MiamiWindMachine but as I said if she doesn’t get paid for staying late, I can understand why she is cashing up early. She still offered to do if for you, 9/10 she probably doesn’t have anyone in at that time.

Why would Marks and Spencer offer a service until 8 that requires the staff member to cash up after all transactions are complete, then not pay their member of staff to do the cashing up? What basis do you have for saying that retail staff’s paid hours end when the store closes?

IdLikeToBeAFraser · 14/08/2024 20:15

BobnLen · 14/08/2024 19:41

My Tesco and Sainsbury's online shop came from the stores five miles down the road not a warehouse, Waitrose and Asda don't generally use warehouses either.

Yes, bit they can move to warehouses and in some places do. Can also handle logistics etc. Don't get me wrong, I am not saying that they want to abandon bricks and mortar stores, I am just making the point that they don't need to attract more people to the actual stores... that isn't their business model anymore.

Trail374 · 14/08/2024 20:12

taxguru · 14/08/2024 20:01

It's good to have choice, and most shops offer that choice.

Places that have stopped self service tills, like Booths supermarkets, will undoubtedly choose to open them again as the demographics change over time. At the moment, the typical Booths customer will be more elderly so less keen of self service. That will be alienating younger customers who prefer self service and don't want to be stuck in long queues. Over time, the average shopper will be accustomed to self service and there'll be pressure on Booths to reintroduce them, otherwise they'll suffer a drop in customer numbers as elderly customers stop shopping there due to being housebound, in homes, or dying. Booths probably made a mistake in moving to self service too soon given their elderly customer demographic.

Asda is reacting to customer preference too. That is hardly a shop with an elderly demographic.

reesewithoutaspoon · 14/08/2024 20:10

If I have the choice of fighting with the town centre traffic,paying through the nose for parking or alternatively waiting for unreliable public transport, then hoofing around a town centre looking for something I like in my size, over sitting at home in front of my PC with a coffee and finding multiple options at reasonable prices. It's not hard to guess which one I choose.

sleekcat · 14/08/2024 20:09

Shops want to save money in any way possible. They don't seem to care if service has dropped, they don't want more staff. Minimum wage has risen by about a quarter in the last few years and they want as many people as possible to use the self scanners. I will not put a whole trolley load of shopping through a self scanner though, it's too much effort. My mum won't use them ever.

JenniferBooth · 14/08/2024 20:07

Good old Stephensons buses where i live have no air comditioning and the heating on in AUGUST Not for the first year either,

taxguru · 14/08/2024 20:01

Butteredtoast55 · 14/08/2024 19:55

There are shops now realising that self service is losing them business and that there are plenty of people who prefer to shop and interact with salespeople.

I absolutely hate being an unpaid worker in a shop, having to scan my own shopping or use a self service till. Self service hasn't brought prices down, it's just made shopping worse for customers and put people out of work.

It's good to have choice, and most shops offer that choice.

Places that have stopped self service tills, like Booths supermarkets, will undoubtedly choose to open them again as the demographics change over time. At the moment, the typical Booths customer will be more elderly so less keen of self service. That will be alienating younger customers who prefer self service and don't want to be stuck in long queues. Over time, the average shopper will be accustomed to self service and there'll be pressure on Booths to reintroduce them, otherwise they'll suffer a drop in customer numbers as elderly customers stop shopping there due to being housebound, in homes, or dying. Booths probably made a mistake in moving to self service too soon given their elderly customer demographic.

BobnLen · 14/08/2024 20:00

Nadeed · 14/08/2024 19:53

I agree. Maybe in London its in a warehouse?

I think it must be London, it's certainly not where I live apart from Ocado and Morrisons through Amazon probably is

Nadeed · 14/08/2024 19:59

I agree, but councils won't. Most are committed to making it harder to have cars.

taxguru · 14/08/2024 19:57

Nadeed · 14/08/2024 19:49

@GreenTeaLikesMe As I have already said we have lots and lots of city centre apartments already. Its only students and young people who like partying who like living in them. There is no car parking, and it is noisy with clubs, pubs and restaurants doing bottomless brunches.

I agree, lack of residential parking is a major problem for town centre living. That's why Uni students are an ideal target for town centre residential conversions as they're less likely to have cars.

In my nearby city, which has a huge university compared to the size of the city, it's a hot topic of conversation on the Uni student social media chats from a minority of students choosing city centre accommodation but needing somewhere to park their car, thus asking which accommodation blocks either have their own parking or are near enough to walk to either cheaper car parks or on street unlimited parking. One block in particular is very popular with students owning cars as it's right on the edge of the city centre, wrong end of town (opposite end to the Uni), but it has lots of free unlimited off street parking just 5 minutes away - the free and easy parking is it's main marketing attraction. Apparently very few students without cars choose it as it's quite a walk from the city centre and bus station, so unpopular for those without cars, but ideal for those with cars.

When councils are planning the regeneration of town centres, they need to seriously plan for prospective future residents of flats etc who need cars - no sane person is going to buy/rent a town centre flat if they're going to be screwed by having to pay for parking in expensive council town centre car parks, and besides that, lots of council car parks are closed and barriered off at night, so aren't suitable for people living nearby anyway. Councils would need to make provision for residential car ownership.

Butteredtoast55 · 14/08/2024 19:55

There are shops now realising that self service is losing them business and that there are plenty of people who prefer to shop and interact with salespeople.

I absolutely hate being an unpaid worker in a shop, having to scan my own shopping or use a self service till. Self service hasn't brought prices down, it's just made shopping worse for customers and put people out of work.

Nadeed · 14/08/2024 19:53

Iwasafool · 14/08/2024 19:45

My neighbour used to be a picker at Sainsbury's just down the road. I see them picking the home delivery orders when I'm in the shop. It definitely comes from the local store.

I agree. Maybe in London its in a warehouse?

suburburban · 14/08/2024 19:50

It's carrying the groceries as well

We are fortunate that we can walk to shops without driving but are limited to what we can carry

Yea I know I could have a wheely trolley😂

Nadeed · 14/08/2024 19:49

@GreenTeaLikesMe As I have already said we have lots and lots of city centre apartments already. Its only students and young people who like partying who like living in them. There is no car parking, and it is noisy with clubs, pubs and restaurants doing bottomless brunches.

taxguru · 14/08/2024 19:48

suburburban · 14/08/2024 19:33

Also not many people had cars

Most didn't need them because they lived close to where they shopped and worked when everything was based around town centres.

To an extent, the "need" for cars has been a result of the fragmentation of how we live, with housing estates, retail parks, industrial estates, all in different areas of the town or outside the town.

Improving buses doesn't solve the problem because buses will never be as convenient as cars.

Much as I hate to admit it, but the idea of "15 minute cities" has a lot of merit in attempting to get homes, shops, businesses and other amenities closer together, so that walking and cycling becomes more viable, thus reducing the need for both cars and public transport.

Iwasafool · 14/08/2024 19:45

BobnLen · 14/08/2024 19:41

My Tesco and Sainsbury's online shop came from the stores five miles down the road not a warehouse, Waitrose and Asda don't generally use warehouses either.

My neighbour used to be a picker at Sainsbury's just down the road. I see them picking the home delivery orders when I'm in the shop. It definitely comes from the local store.

GreenTeaLikesMe · 14/08/2024 19:42

Nadeed · 14/08/2024 17:05

I areas in areas where there is the demand. Where I live we have lots of these apartments. The demand is for houses with car parking.

If there is no demand for city-center living in your particular town, then it is fine not to build any flats in your particular town. Your town’s residents can stick exclusively to suburban housing if they want, as we live in a democracy. The trade-off that your town will probably have to accept, however, is that your town center will probably be very quiet with a lot of boarded-up buildings. Your choice!

BobnLen · 14/08/2024 19:41

IdLikeToBeAFraser · 14/08/2024 18:55

I think you're missing a key point - it's much much cheaper and better for Sainsburys or whatever for you to do your shopping online. They can store the bulk of their items in cheaper, out of the way places and not in expensive towns. They don't need to worry about the same "user experience" of a store - ie good flooring and lighting and nicely labelled shelving etc. They don't have to have loads of employees. They can control stock better - eg, so many of us will actively look for the longest use-by date on milk and leave those with only 3 or 4 days behind. Some of that gets wasted. They don't have that problem online - their online packers are taking the stuff that is closest to use by first. Every time. etc etc etc.

There are some benefits to them if you shop in person such as spontaneous shopping etc - but even that is being cleverly managed online. And even more importantly, they can adapt what they offer you at the checkout online so that you a) are more likely to buy because it's the kind of stuff you like and b) they can manage their stock better by showing you discounts on things that are close to expiy or whatever.

So no, the shops don't want you to come in. They provide the service because they have a large enough customer base who wants/needs it and because it's helpful to their overall brand and marketing. But it's not something they do because they WANT you to shop there.

My Tesco and Sainsbury's online shop came from the stores five miles down the road not a warehouse, Waitrose and Asda don't generally use warehouses either.

Nadeed · 14/08/2024 19:36

@IdLikeToBeAFraser There is a reason that ALDI is opening new stores. They have self checkout, but also cashiers.

And as I have said before on here, I see more independents than ever being cash only, especially restaurants. I don't like chains, so this suits me.