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To think this is why the high street is failing?

614 replies

MiamiWindMachine · 14/08/2024 11:03

I’m off on holiday in a couple of days, so thought I’d go up to the big shopping centre for a couple of last minute things.

In the massive H&M, all the tills bar one had been converted to self-service. The ones on the floor I was on were ALL closed. I went down to the lower floor and there was a huge queue, because no one could work out the machines. There was a step to remove security tags, and people couldn’t work out whether this was only for those plastic tags or if there was some flag on the barcodes for lower value items. Someone else was trying to process a return via these tills. When a member of staff eventually appeared, she confirmed returns could only be processed at a manned till. The customer pointed out that there were no manned tills. The staff member had no idea who to ask about it, then disappeared to find someone, so the queue was getting even longer.

I was on the way out about 15 minutes before closing time and went past M&S. I thought “I wonder if the Bureau de Change is still open” and went to check. The woman saw me approach and had a pained look on her face, saying “Arrgghh, I’ve just cashed uuuppp!” I was a bit taken aback, but said “Oh well, never mind. What time do you close, for future reference?” She then reluctantly admitted that she was supposed to be open until 8, but said “But I do start cashing up at around 7.30”. I was about to ask why when she started saying, “It’s fine; I’ll do it, I’ll do it”, like she was doing me a massive favour. I tried to pay on Revolut and she said “We can’t take those cards!”, as if it was somehow obvious. I asked about Apple Pay and she said, “No, it has to be a proper bank card or credit card”. I therefore went to pay with my credit card and she said, “You do know we have to charge a fee for these, don’t you?” I said I didn’t have a choice given she’d rejected two other payment methods.

I then went down to foods to grab a ready meal and some wine. I went to a manned till as I had alcohol and the girl said, “Oh, could you go to the self-service? It’s just that I’m closing this one”. I asked about the alcohol and she said, “I can approve that from here; it’s just that it’s easier for me”.

I feel like we’re constantly told in the media “Use it or lose it” re: the high street; how sad it would be if we lost the personal touch. From what I could see yesterday, one store has done everything possible to eliminate personal interaction, while in the other, the staff are more bothered about their convenience than the customers’. Is it any wonder that people would rather click a couple of buttons to get something delivered?

OP posts:
RaraRachael · 18/08/2024 16:40

We have no self checkouts in our local Lidl. I would actually like one as I hate going in to buy a couple of things and having to stand behind people with massive trolleys. I don't know why they have 6 checkouts as there are never more than 2 of them operating.

parkrun500club · 18/08/2024 12:32

I think if you refuse to use self checkout/the hand held things in the supermarket, you're just ignorant

I think the people who use them without question and just accept being treated badly by businesses with whom they spend £1000s a year may have a better claim to the "ignorant" description. But there is really no need to be so insulting.

parkrun500club · 18/08/2024 12:30

IDontHateRainbows · 18/08/2024 08:37

It's getting to the point where an actual human member of staff is the 'unexpected item in the bagging area'

Ha ha yes. I was in Lidl yesterday and noticed there wasn't a member of staff by the self-checkout. Fortunately I was only buying a couple of things and didn't need anyone to help me.

parkrun500club · 18/08/2024 12:29

BobnLen · 18/08/2024 08:21

Self checkouts were ok and good in supermarkets when there were a few and they were mainly aimed at the lunchtime rush of sandwich and drink or the odd thing that you might pop in for, now they are expected to be used for the weekly shop, it's just gone too far.

Yes I think this is the key point. I am quite happy to use them for a few things - they save time and save me having to queue (generally).

But I can't imagine what a PITA it is to scan a whole trolley shop. Especially as you very often can't bag as you go. At least if you go to a staffed till there's time to put things in bags as the member of staff scans them.

I won't use scan as you shop because of the "random" rescanning which will take an age - and you still have to go through age verification if you have age restricted items, so query where you save any time!

Retiredearly61 · 18/08/2024 12:27

@taxguru
Totally agree about Debenhams and the franchises, shopping in store was a right nightmare. However I used to love their website to narrow down the choices and I regularly used to buy from there and got used to which brands etc fitted well. But even that got worse. I’d order 4 of the same size and one would be massive on me, two too tight and I’d keep one if I was lucky. No wonder they went under.
I do miss Debenhams at Christmas though, their gifts were lovely

taxguru · 18/08/2024 12:20

@Alleycat1

Department stores shot themselves in the foot years ago when they split into franchises. I used to be able to go to the coat section or dress section etc. so could easily find what I wanted. Now I have to spend hours traipsing from Brand to Brand often on different floors. Who has the time?!

I agree with that. It was OK in the past when people made an "event" of shopping, but now when you have to fit it in your lunch hour or have to get back to your car within 1 or 2 hours to avoid getting a parking fine, you need to be in and out of the shops without dallying around.

The last time I went to Debenhams before it shut down was a case in point. I just wanted a pair of "normal" black jeans. I spent ages going from franchise to franchise trying to find some - there were skinny ones, embroidered ones, long ones, short ones, flared ones, torn ones, depending on which franchise, but no "bog standard boring" normal black jeans. I kept asking shop assistants but they all just vaguely pointed me to "try" other franchises. After an hour traipsing around, upstairs, downstairs, through narrow openings into different areas (it was an old fashioned store with different levels etc, knocked through different buildings etc). I just gave home and was heading out, when I saw a random rail in a corner behind a pillar - it was a rail of normal black jeans - I could have cried with joy - then I realised they had them in every size except the size I actually wanted. What a come down! Never went back again.

Same with OH at Debenhams - he's a "big" man and found that Debenhams were the only place who sold "very large" winter coats. For years, we'd go to Debenhams every 2 or 3 years to buy him a new coat. Go back 10-20 years or so and they had a kind of "area" for thick winter coats - always a good range of colours, styles and sizes. The last few times, we'd go to Debs and we had to trail around different franchises and none of them had big winter coats in his size, so we ended up walking away with nothing - we kept trying 2/3/4 winters but they never had any.

It was no surprise at all for us when Debs shut their stores. They were the architects of their own demise.

PrimalLass · 18/08/2024 09:24

BobnLen · 14/08/2024 11:48

It was in the news at the weekend that Asda were going to put staff back on the checkouts, probably people aren't going in there because it's so crap, I sometimes pop in for milk or one thing as it's near me but I wouldn't do a large shop there and check it all out myself.

Good. Asda is particularly bad for the machines not working properly.

IDontHateRainbows · 18/08/2024 08:37

It's getting to the point where an actual human member of staff is the 'unexpected item in the bagging area'

PrimalLass · 18/08/2024 08:31

NeedSomeAnswersPlease · 14/08/2024 11:10

I think if you refuse to use self checkout/the hand held things in the supermarket, you're just ignorant.

It's 2024. This all has shades of people complaining when the currency system in the UK changed, or when bank cards were introduced. You can do it, you just refuse to learn how to.

They don't work half the time. Big companies have employed far less staff because of the reliance on these machine that don't work. This puts huge pressure on the staff remaining.

I specifically go to shops that have actual staff at the tills.

BobnLen · 18/08/2024 08:21

Self checkouts were ok and good in supermarkets when there were a few and they were mainly aimed at the lunchtime rush of sandwich and drink or the odd thing that you might pop in for, now they are expected to be used for the weekly shop, it's just gone too far.

Sharptonguedwoman · 18/08/2024 08:13

NeedSomeAnswersPlease · 14/08/2024 11:10

I think if you refuse to use self checkout/the hand held things in the supermarket, you're just ignorant.

It's 2024. This all has shades of people complaining when the currency system in the UK changed, or when bank cards were introduced. You can do it, you just refuse to learn how to.

Of course I can and do (when no other choice) use the self service check outs. I think the shops are CFs though. I don't work for Lidl or whoever. I've walked around, picked up my shopping taken it to the till and then I have to deal with it myself- and the ensuing fuss if the machine doesn't work or there's alcohol. Pain in the bloody neck. Most shops need to open twice as many tills. Boots don't have any non-self service tills. I won't be going back.

Alleycat1 · 18/08/2024 07:48

On my tablet and haven't read the full 22 pages.

Re: self-checkout. I won't use them because cashiers lose their jobs. Also if I am doing the job of a cashier where is my staff discount or reduction in prices? I am more likely to be accused of shop lifting too if, because I have no training, I make a mistake. It is not about convenience for the shopper and all about maximising profits!

Department stores shot themselves in the foot years ago when they split into franchises. I used to be able to go to the coat section or dress section etc. so could easily find what I wanted. Now I have to spend hours traipsing from Brand to Brand often on different floors. Who has the time?!

Thomasina79 · 18/08/2024 07:16

I stopped going to my local shopping centre because of difficulties and costs of parking. I used to love the choice and the the vibe there.now it is sad and run down. Easier to shop online now. But I agree, it’s sad

BobnLen · 18/08/2024 06:39

Morrisons has now done a U turn on self checkouts, was mentioned on the BBC news also article in the DM

DuesToTheDirt · 17/08/2024 10:36

JenniferBooth · 16/08/2024 20:19

Our Boots is great, All manned tills No self service

I ordered a photo calendar from Boots recently. I've done this before, and you go into the store and pick it up from the photo counter. Now the photo counter has disappeared, and I found a random member of staff wandering about, who didn't know where it was and had to go and find it in the back. It all seems so disorganised and not customer-oriented.

JenniferBooth · 16/08/2024 20:19

Sladuf · 15/08/2024 10:11

Shopping in Boots has become more trouble than it’s worth too I’ve found. Visited four branches in the last few months and had decent service in one of them. I’d received a load of those Advantage card points vouchers but they all had to be used in store, which is all well and good but the standards of in store experience now are rubbish.

Went to one store on a Sunday and they had one person serving and from what I could see three other members of staff not doing a great deal. The person being served and the shop assistant behind the till obviously knew each other and were having a catch-up. My friend was with me and the pair of us decided after ten minutes to forget it. We went to Superdrug just across the road and bought what we needed for less money and were served straight away.

I went to another branch I used to go to after work to pass the time and avoid being sat in traffic. It used to be very good for customer service. This time around I was waiting for well over 15 minutes trying to buy some aftershave. Went looking for someone to come and help and couldn’t find anyone. Eventually did - “can you find Sue instead?” I said I don’t know who Sue is because I don’t work in the store - where would I find her, what does she look like? She was huffy and said, “I’ll go and get her then!” This lady then arrived and was like Basil Fawlty when serving me.
It’ll be a long time before I return to that branch!

Our Boots is great, All manned tills No self service

Nadeed · 16/08/2024 17:39

And chains still make lots of profit. But no one cares about low paid staff having totally shit working conditions.

Nadeed · 16/08/2024 17:38

It was not hefty benefits, it was simply that they paid more than statutory pay for sickness and maternity. An easy way to cut costs is to take anything away from staff taht is more than the legal minimum.

taxguru · 16/08/2024 14:22

HotCrossBunplease · 16/08/2024 14:19

They still had to keep the shops clean though. How did they do that- outsourced? That would have still come with a cost.

I think it's to avoid/reduce all the "extras" like hefty employer pension contributions, building up hefty redundancy pay, reducing holiday entitlements, etc.

Just the same way as councils contract out the bin collections, hospitals contract out the cleaning and catering etc.

There was a lot of legacy employment contracts with hefty benefits that was becoming unaffordable. Unions weren't allowing contract renegotiations, so the only other option is contract out so staff get TUPE'd over to new contracts (or offered redundancy terms to leave) with new employees taken on under less onerous contract terms.

IDontHateRainbows · 16/08/2024 14:20

HotCrossBunplease · 16/08/2024 14:19

They still had to keep the shops clean though. How did they do that- outsourced? That would have still come with a cost.

Actually no...they incorporated it into the shop staff duties. A lot left but it was a high turnover environment so they didn't care

HotCrossBunplease · 16/08/2024 14:19

IDontHateRainbows · 16/08/2024 08:38

I worked for a national retailer in a head office job ( HR) many moons ago, so before COLC and they made all the shop cleaners redundant due to costs. Yet the CEO salary was not far off all those cleaners combined ( Many were part time)
Yes I know he runs the show/ market forces/ if he fks up there'll be redundancies for all staff.

But it's still bonkers

They still had to keep the shops clean though. How did they do that- outsourced? That would have still come with a cost.

IDontHateRainbows · 16/08/2024 08:38

ConstructionTime · 15/08/2024 22:17

Another factor for the low pay of staff:
https://www.theguardian.com/business/article/2024/may/14/tesco-ceo-near-10m-pay-a-slap-in-the-face-for-struggling-workers-union-says

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/aug/24/ceos-100-low-wage-companies-income

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2024/mar/10/when-17m-isnt-enough-ftse-firms-plead-to-pay-bosses-millions-more

These are just a few examples; but you can find similar news about most retail and food businesses.

It is not the high pay as such that is the biggest annoyance; it is that it is such a huge multiple of an average shop floor income. Of course steering a whole global company is more responsibility, but it's not like they are doing that all on their own, there is a huge team of people at the top to share the workload. Even so, the difference is hard to justify.

They certainly could pay more across most levels, even if the top crew would earn 15m instead of 18m

There is an database / research centre just on this topic alone:

https://highpaycentre.org/about/

I worked for a national retailer in a head office job ( HR) many moons ago, so before COLC and they made all the shop cleaners redundant due to costs. Yet the CEO salary was not far off all those cleaners combined ( Many were part time)
Yes I know he runs the show/ market forces/ if he fks up there'll be redundancies for all staff.

But it's still bonkers

ConstructionTime · 15/08/2024 22:17

Another factor for the low pay of staff:
https://www.theguardian.com/business/article/2024/may/14/tesco-ceo-near-10m-pay-a-slap-in-the-face-for-struggling-workers-union-says

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/aug/24/ceos-100-low-wage-companies-income

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2024/mar/10/when-17m-isnt-enough-ftse-firms-plead-to-pay-bosses-millions-more

These are just a few examples; but you can find similar news about most retail and food businesses.

It is not the high pay as such that is the biggest annoyance; it is that it is such a huge multiple of an average shop floor income. Of course steering a whole global company is more responsibility, but it's not like they are doing that all on their own, there is a huge team of people at the top to share the workload. Even so, the difference is hard to justify.

They certainly could pay more across most levels, even if the top crew would earn 15m instead of 18m

There is an database / research centre just on this topic alone:

https://highpaycentre.org/about/

StrawberrySquash · 15/08/2024 15:32

NeedSomeAnswersPlease · 14/08/2024 11:22

@Seeline surely it's not that hard? Never had any issues like you're describing, you put bags in before starting, or in most supermarkets use the hand held scanners

If I add a bag before starting to scan I always get a message saying I need staff approval. Even if I tell the till it's a bag. The best workaround is to scan something of variable weight first and add it and the bag at the same time. Then the bag weighs doesn't trigger a message.

But yeah, I'm fed up with needing multiple staff approvals and there not being any staff to do it. Sainsbury's, you save a ton by closing proper tills. Use a small amount of that money to staff the self checkouts!

reesewithoutaspoon · 15/08/2024 15:30

High streets just don't have anything to offer that I can't find better online. the only thing that would drag me into town now is if it was a pleasurable experience, that was worth making the effort for.

Instead, they have cut corners and made the whole thing more difficult more inconvenient, and just a hassle.

If I want a round-necked blue cardigan, I can sit at home, google shop it, and find multiple places I can buy it from, or I can deal with the traffic, crap expensive parking and walking around from shop to shop in vain hope I find one.
Pay £3:99 delivery or pay £10+ for petrol and parking and probably come away empty handed.
It's a no-brainer for me.