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To think this is why the high street is failing?

614 replies

MiamiWindMachine · 14/08/2024 11:03

I’m off on holiday in a couple of days, so thought I’d go up to the big shopping centre for a couple of last minute things.

In the massive H&M, all the tills bar one had been converted to self-service. The ones on the floor I was on were ALL closed. I went down to the lower floor and there was a huge queue, because no one could work out the machines. There was a step to remove security tags, and people couldn’t work out whether this was only for those plastic tags or if there was some flag on the barcodes for lower value items. Someone else was trying to process a return via these tills. When a member of staff eventually appeared, she confirmed returns could only be processed at a manned till. The customer pointed out that there were no manned tills. The staff member had no idea who to ask about it, then disappeared to find someone, so the queue was getting even longer.

I was on the way out about 15 minutes before closing time and went past M&S. I thought “I wonder if the Bureau de Change is still open” and went to check. The woman saw me approach and had a pained look on her face, saying “Arrgghh, I’ve just cashed uuuppp!” I was a bit taken aback, but said “Oh well, never mind. What time do you close, for future reference?” She then reluctantly admitted that she was supposed to be open until 8, but said “But I do start cashing up at around 7.30”. I was about to ask why when she started saying, “It’s fine; I’ll do it, I’ll do it”, like she was doing me a massive favour. I tried to pay on Revolut and she said “We can’t take those cards!”, as if it was somehow obvious. I asked about Apple Pay and she said, “No, it has to be a proper bank card or credit card”. I therefore went to pay with my credit card and she said, “You do know we have to charge a fee for these, don’t you?” I said I didn’t have a choice given she’d rejected two other payment methods.

I then went down to foods to grab a ready meal and some wine. I went to a manned till as I had alcohol and the girl said, “Oh, could you go to the self-service? It’s just that I’m closing this one”. I asked about the alcohol and she said, “I can approve that from here; it’s just that it’s easier for me”.

I feel like we’re constantly told in the media “Use it or lose it” re: the high street; how sad it would be if we lost the personal touch. From what I could see yesterday, one store has done everything possible to eliminate personal interaction, while in the other, the staff are more bothered about their convenience than the customers’. Is it any wonder that people would rather click a couple of buttons to get something delivered?

OP posts:
PuggyPuggyPuggy · 14/08/2024 13:01

The issue of staff having to cash up, clean the coffee machine, clean the kitchen etc before closing time, or not get paid for it is an eternal one, isn't it. I once worked in a supermarket where the alarm would go off if we hadn't all clocked out and left the store within 10 minutes of the store closing (or thereabouts, it's 20 years ago). You can bet the front door was looked at least 10 minutes before then 😬 Earlier than that on the specific days we could expect two particular customers to turn up half hour to 20 minutes before closing time and both strolling around, doing a massive, trolley-piled-high shop, and then still having to get stuff scanned and packed once we were closed.

MrsWinkly · 14/08/2024 13:00

WearyAuldWumman · 14/08/2024 12:15

Ignorant? Maybe.

I'm 64, so not that old. However, since I lost my husband I find myself becoming easily muddled. I hope that that resolves, but real old age beckons, so....

There's also the fact that - for some of us - the only human interaction that we get all day is a greeting at a checkout desk or shop counter.

I've been through umpteen changes in my life: decimalisation, credit cards, ATMs, computerisation.

I choose to use the "normal" checkouts because I don't want to get muddled, I want human interaction and I'm hoping that if we keep using those checkouts it might help keep someone in a job.

I'm ignorant. Shoot me.

Well said! 👏👏👏

lalalapland · 14/08/2024 12:57

I think these issues are all symptoms rather than the cause. People shop online for various reasons - convenience, more options etc. And now those who shop in fast fashion shops such as H&M are buying the same clothes from places like Shein for a fraction of the cost.

It’s not some big conspiracy, its 100% linked to advancement in technology

Gonnagetgoingreturnsagain · 14/08/2024 12:56

You’re not wrong. Last time I was in Westfield Stratford in June it also seemed chaotic. I went into M&S, Arket, Cos, Zara and H&M and it all seemed chaotic with most things I wouldn’t want to buy.

The self service checkouts I’ve used in Zara but that’s irritating too as you just think (or I do) why can’t I go to a manned till (yuu can do this too) but they seem to want to put you off the whole shopping experience.

whynotwhatknot · 14/08/2024 12:55

it really sad the way its going i cant buy clothes online they never fit sizes all over the place soon i wont have a choice

they didnt even bother with self serve in our h an m just shut it

Rainydayinlondon · 14/08/2024 12:54

Abra1t · 14/08/2024 11:36

Same with banks. I have banked digitally for years and years. I don't need telling that online is convenient--I know.

In the weeks following a recent bereavement, I needed to go to an actual branch to sort things out, things that can't be done on the app and which they tell you you have to go to a branch to do. Ours is 18 miles away. They meet you aggressively at the door with an IPad and demand why you're there, why you haven't used the app (because I'm having problems with the app), what your problem is (the day after a bereavement I opened an account and accidentally used my maiden, not married, name. 'Why would you do that?' Because I hadn't slept for days and my mother had died the previous night).

An elderly couple, hunched over, moving with obvious discomfort, were asked why they weren't using the app. 'Because our eyesight is bad and we have bad arthritis in our fingers.'

Same with the post office. 'Why are you here?' Because I have a complicated postal query. 'Why aren't you using the machine?' Because I have a complicated postal query. It's like being in a Soviet-Era store.

Is this Barclays? The falsely smiling “guards” wielding iPads is actually rather scary.

Gwenhwyfar · 14/08/2024 12:53

Fluffyelephant · 14/08/2024 12:51

Well, not to be cheeky but Kwik Save closed down nearly 20 years ago.. so I don't think we can assume what happened there and then is standard practice now.

And if that's not the case in a shop, the workers should challenge it.

Well, yes I said it was when I was a teenager so I wasn't claiming it was recent.

Beowulfa · 14/08/2024 12:53

Where I grew up (small market town) a new M&S food hall opened up. It closed after a couple of months, as although the local demographic is its core target (affluent retirees with time to spare to browse the organic salads), it only had self-service checkouts. My parents went once and didn't like it.

I now go to a bigger supermarket that's further from my house, because they always have at least two manned checkouts. I use a smaller Boots where you can pay at the pharmacy counter. I buy from charity shops where possible, using cash. I have a contrary nature and it feels like a small way to rebel.

I also remember back in the day Oxford St being a destination for meeting your mates on a Saturday afternoon to browse Topshop and HMV.

Rainydayinlondon · 14/08/2024 12:53

MereDintofPandiculation · 14/08/2024 11:36

Is she going to call my boss to complain about the overpaid overtime I do? I doubt it. I suspect you mean "unpaid overtime". I'm willing to bet that your hourly rate still exceeds hers, even with the overtime, that you have more autonomy over your work, that you won't see a deduction from your salary if you're five or 10 minutes late for work. Just don't complain to/about the front-line worker.

She didn’t complain though? The cashier admitted she liked to cash up early

KnittedCardi · 14/08/2024 12:52

NeedSomeAnswersPlease · 14/08/2024 11:10

I think if you refuse to use self checkout/the hand held things in the supermarket, you're just ignorant.

It's 2024. This all has shades of people complaining when the currency system in the UK changed, or when bank cards were introduced. You can do it, you just refuse to learn how to.

Refuse? No. I want to be served, by a human, human interaction is important. I value the human, chat about their day, make eye contact, thank them for their service. That's the point of shops, it's called customer care.

EvangelicalAboutButteredToast · 14/08/2024 12:52

Gensola · 14/08/2024 12:48

I’ve just moved from UK to America and the shopping here is amazing - I’ve managed to find everything I want for my new house and loads of other things all in shops in my town, they’re clean and the staff are really helpful. There are also loads of indie businesses (mom and pop shops) as well as big box stores like Target. even the mobile phone shops are far nicer and more helpful than the UK. So it can be done! I’d say things are more expensive here though, but tbh I’m happy to pay a bit more to have a constantly really good experience.

Is this linked to the tip system I wonder?

Maray1967 · 14/08/2024 12:52

NeedSomeAnswersPlease · 14/08/2024 11:10

I think if you refuse to use self checkout/the hand held things in the supermarket, you're just ignorant.

It's 2024. This all has shades of people complaining when the currency system in the UK changed, or when bank cards were introduced. You can do it, you just refuse to learn how to.

I absolutely refuse to self scan. I am trying to
protect retail jobs. I don’t think I will be giving my custom to Asda again as my nearest one seems to have removed all staffed checkouts whereas my local Tesco has plenty.

Fluffyelephant · 14/08/2024 12:51

Gwenhwyfar · 14/08/2024 12:47

"In every shop I worked in the staff on the final shift of the day would finish and be paid for half an hour after the shop closed to finish off with any customers, cash up and tidy up. And the reverse for the first shift of the day; staff would start inn advance of the shop opening.

It's just good sense."

It is, but it wasn't the case when I was a teenager and my 13 year old friend worked for Kwik Save. They had to stay until everything was clean, but weren't paid for it. It was terrible exploitation of youngsters.

Well, not to be cheeky but Kwik Save closed down nearly 20 years ago.. so I don't think we can assume what happened there and then is standard practice now.

And if that's not the case in a shop, the workers should challenge it.

NeedSomeAnswersPlease · 14/08/2024 12:51

@BobnLen and why don't you want to use them? Ridiculous

Frasers · 14/08/2024 12:51

MereDintofPandiculation · 14/08/2024 11:27

But they're not paying her to keep the service open till 8 (because that would mean paying her to stay till 8.30). So take it up with the company.

If you're paying minimum wage, of a limited hours contract, you cannot expect staff to go "over and above".

I suspect the poster is making an erroneous assumption, simply as I know someone who does this job, they are paid the additional time. The employee simply wished to cash up early so she could leave straight after 8. And likely gets away with it most times too , it’s likely she knows she seldom gets people in post 7,30, so cashes up so she can make a swift exit.

Fluffyelephant · 14/08/2024 12:49

MereDintofPandiculation · 14/08/2024 11:27

But they're not paying her to keep the service open till 8 (because that would mean paying her to stay till 8.30). So take it up with the company.

If you're paying minimum wage, of a limited hours contract, you cannot expect staff to go "over and above".

You have no evidence to actually suggest that is the case though.

In every shop I ever worked in the shifts were deliberately timed so that staff were there before and after opening hours. e.g. your shift would be 1-5.30pm on a Sunday even though it closed to customers at 5pm. This was just good sense so that staff could finish off with any customers, cash up, and then tidy up.

I'd be very surprised if that wasn't happening somewhere as big and established as M&S. And tbh if the person on the Travel Money counter is exempt from and is only paid until 8 and then expected to cash up that it will only be because she's in a position that's more responsibility and better paid than the other shop workers.

Gensola · 14/08/2024 12:48

I’ve just moved from UK to America and the shopping here is amazing - I’ve managed to find everything I want for my new house and loads of other things all in shops in my town, they’re clean and the staff are really helpful. There are also loads of indie businesses (mom and pop shops) as well as big box stores like Target. even the mobile phone shops are far nicer and more helpful than the UK. So it can be done! I’d say things are more expensive here though, but tbh I’m happy to pay a bit more to have a constantly really good experience.

Gwenhwyfar · 14/08/2024 12:47

"In every shop I worked in the staff on the final shift of the day would finish and be paid for half an hour after the shop closed to finish off with any customers, cash up and tidy up. And the reverse for the first shift of the day; staff would start inn advance of the shop opening.

It's just good sense."

It is, but it wasn't the case when I was a teenager and my 13 year old friend worked for Kwik Save. They had to stay until everything was clean, but weren't paid for it. It was terrible exploitation of youngsters.

BobnLen · 14/08/2024 12:46

NeedSomeAnswersPlease · 14/08/2024 12:39

@GoldenLegend no, ignorant. They're incredibly simple and there's no reason why the vast majority of the population can't use them.

Are you the self checkout expert, of course others can use them, many like me don't want to. The thread is about failings of the high street and that is one of them.

Gwenhwyfar · 14/08/2024 12:45

ComtesseDeSpair · 14/08/2024 11:12

A lot of these examples involve poorly paid retail workers who don’t get paid extra for the closing or the cashing up if they have to stay beyond their set hours, and retailers who deliberately understaff their stores to save money. Taking your ire out on staff for being lazy or not wanting to inconvenience themselves is often misplaced - sure, some of them are lazy, but there’s not a chance if I had to work for minimum wage that I’d go above and beyond for it, for other people’s benefit and my employer’s profit margins. Complain to the businesses with poor business practices, rather than staff.

Edited

The employer should be paying them for any extra time obviously so the problem is with the employer and not the customer.

I'm on the continent and this kind of thing is much more common here e.g. being in the library and the lights being switched off 20 minutes before closing time because they want to you to go.

JoyousPinkPeer · 14/08/2024 12:43

NeedSomeAnswersPlease · 14/08/2024 11:10

I think if you refuse to use self checkout/the hand held things in the supermarket, you're just ignorant.

It's 2024. This all has shades of people complaining when the currency system in the UK changed, or when bank cards were introduced. You can do it, you just refuse to learn how to.

CF

Lovetotravel123 · 14/08/2024 12:43

I don’t bother because shops never have my size. The level of stock is too low because they don’t want to risk having too much.

Fluffyelephant · 14/08/2024 12:42

MiamiWindMachine · 14/08/2024 11:19

The woman cashing up at 7:30 probably doesn’t get paid past her shift so why wait?

Because the service is supposed to be available until 8.

Exactly.

The other poster is assuming she finishes / doesn't get paid after 8pm, when nothing has been said to actually indicate that.

In every shop I worked in the staff on the final shift of the day would finish and be paid for half an hour after the shop closed to finish off with any customers, cash up and tidy up. And the reverse for the first shift of the day; staff would start inn advance of the shop opening.

It's just good sense.

PigeonFeatherInMyChair · 14/08/2024 12:41

I think there are lots of reasons why high streets are failing and, as other's have said, the poor service is both the cause and the effect of it.

It's not particularly pleasant to 'go shopping now' - whereas 20+ years ago, it was a typical Saturday morning activity and one I remember with fondness. But I wouldn't do it now - it's often far too much hassle, too expensive and too uncomfortable to.

But, OP, at least they seem to have given you and the rest of us a reason for a good moan - which you appear to have enjoyed! 😁

Treelichen · 14/08/2024 12:40

I much prefer the self check-outs as they are more efficient. Once You've done a shop removing tags once, it is easy.