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AIBU?

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Original poster

Am I being mean about the "supersweet" friend?

532 replies

endlessnonsense · 14/08/2024 08:22

I have a friend (well, she's equally a friend of me and DH, she and her XH used to be our neighbours). We now only see her a couple of times a year as we live far away now, and I wouldn't call her a really close friend. When we go on holiday, which is to a hot seaside place in Europe, we often get friends joining us as we have a place to stay and a boat, which is fun. This year she came.

I spent a lot of the time she was here in a state of suppressed anger at her, which caused me to resent her being here. This is because she turned out, on a several-days long time together, rather than the odd dinner we usually have, to be constantly pretending (or was she pretending?) to be very thoughtful and considerate, when I felt she was being just the opposite, in a passive aggressive way.

Everywhere we suggested going and everything we suggested doing, she deferred to us, "oh I'll do whatever you want, don't worry about me", never offering any suggestions of her own or seeming especially enthusiatic. OK, fair enough, we know the place and she doesn't. But it went much further. She was always faux putting herself down/being the martyr/putting on performative sweetness.

My son has special needs and she is always supersweet to him, but I told her multiple times during the holiday, no, he doesn't want an ice cream, he doesn't like it. It must have run into more than a dozen times she said, "oh darling, do you want an ice cream, oh please let me get him an ice cream, I'll pay"(as though I wasn't getting him the ice cream myself because of meanness). (Strangely, although she knows he does like chocolate, she never once offered to buy him a chocolate)

We planned a trip to a particular place she hadn't been, specifically to show it to her. Other friends were coming too, they are local and had been to the place many times, but we're coming along to be sociable with us and her. When she asked me how many people were coming and I mentioned it would be quite a few (in positive way, saying it would be a fun social event) she said, all sweetly, "well if you don't have room for me I'll just stay behind at the apartment, I don't mind at all". That really annoyed me, she knew the trip was arranged specifically for her!

Another (even more annoying) example, we were at a beach bar/restaurant with a bunch of people. Too many to get one table so we were split between 2 tables. Our food came marginally before the other table's (not more than 2 or 3 minutes). In that time she expressed concern that the toddler at the other table had not yet got her food, and actually got up to take her own plate of food to the toddler (it was a salad of some sort and the toddler was getting chips, so not even remotely the same thing). Me and DH had to physically get her to stop it and sit down before the toddler's mum saw.

She has always been very much a "oh don't worry about me, I'll just have a tap water" type of person, but on this holiday she really got my goat. She's left now and I am not sure if she noticed I was a bit snippy with her by the end. AIBU and a mean friend?

OP posts:
IHaveNeverLivedintheCastle · 14/08/2024 18:15

endlessnonsense · 14/08/2024 18:08

Nothing was "turned into a big thing" Everyone takes their boat out somewhere every day if the weather is good. We and some other people decided we'd go to a certain nice place that day (no more special than any of the other places we go) because this friend hadn't been there. If we hadn't gone there we would have gone somewhere else. It was just strange for her to then say she would stay behind given those circumstances.

Anyway, I have my answer, a significant minority believe I am mean. Something to ponder on.

You really have little self awareness. The day out was described by you in the first post as

We planned a trip to a particular place she hadn't been, specifically to show it to her. Other friends were coming too, they are local and had been to the place many times, but we're coming along to be sociable with us and her. When she asked me how many people were coming and I mentioned it would be quite a few (in positive way, saying it would be a fun social event)

You apparently can't see any difference between what was , I guess in her mind, initially planned for the 3 of you and which then turned into a big group event. And you seem to have no understanding that for some people that changes the dynamic.

IdLikeToBeAFraser · 14/08/2024 18:13

OP, I've only read your posts and the first two pages so I haven't seen a lot of the polarising but it doesn't surprise me.

But I am 100% with you. It's very passive aggressive and attention seeking but also very confusing because it doesnt actually WORK but rather just irritates everyone. So what happens is the person says or does something to appear "kind" or whatever. The recipient or others get irritated. The original person then feels like a victim. I don' tknow, maybe it's a form of narcissism?

I have had a few people like this in my life over the years, including my mother (although she wasn't an extreme version like your friend). I have zero tolerance.

PA (passive aggressive) person (for the 10000th time); Oh, can I get him an ice cream, I'll pay
Me: I keep telling you, he doesn't like ice cream. If you want to get him something, I'm sure he'd love one of those fancy chocolate bars from the little deli over there?

PA: "Oh, I'll give her my salad because her foood isn't coming"
Me: "hahahaha, have you ever met a toddler who likes salad. Give it 2 minutes, I'm sure the food will arrive imminently".

PA: "Oh, don't worry about making me dinner, I'll just have some bread"
Me: "Do you really think I'm going to cook a lovely meal for myself and everyone else and exclude you? What kind of a person do you think I am?"

Come to think of it, now I've picked those two examples - perhaps it's about her judging food choices!? Grin

Original poster
endlessnonsense · 14/08/2024 18:08

Nothing was "turned into a big thing" Everyone takes their boat out somewhere every day if the weather is good. We and some other people decided we'd go to a certain nice place that day (no more special than any of the other places we go) because this friend hadn't been there. If we hadn't gone there we would have gone somewhere else. It was just strange for her to then say she would stay behind given those circumstances.

Anyway, I have my answer, a significant minority believe I am mean. Something to ponder on.

OP posts:
Thepeopleversuswork · 14/08/2024 18:07

@5128gap

The other thing to note about people pleasers is that they often have very highly developed awareness of the moods and feelings of others. They will have spent much time learning to read others to ensure they are pleasing. Unfortunately this means that when you are even subtly irritated by a people pleaser, they will often know

This is true.

But it does make you wonder they apparently can’t ever make the connection between the people pleasing and the irritation?

Surely if you are raised in an environment where it’s impossible to please your parents there comes a point where you put two and two together and just give up?

If there’s a diminishing cycle of returns between your faultless behaviour and the return you get would you not at some point have a lightbulb moment and go: “fuck trying to keep everyone happy I will suit myself”?

This woman is a recent divorcee so maybe she needs to get used to the new reality…

IHaveNeverLivedintheCastle · 14/08/2024 18:00

Thepeopleversuswork · 14/08/2024 17:43

@endlessnonsense

The reason the thread has become polarised I think is because there are a lot of people pleasers in the world.

Sometimes this is due to anxiety or low self esteem and sometimes it’s because people think of being “nice” as a form of social “insurance”: ie if you don’t have strong feelings or opinions and you generally go along with the herd you can’t offend people.

When people realise that expunging all trace of personality isn’t a guaranteed route to popularity they often become defensive, as if they feel they are owed something. You see a version of this on these threads where people pop up to say: “I did everything right, I was completely selfless, why don’t I have any friends?”

When in fact being selfless, self effacing and completely lacking in conviction is a massive turn off. This in itself is often the reason people can’t make or keep friendships. Because there isn’t enough to them.

I do think it must be really hard to break this cycle if you have been socialised in this way. Which is why it’s so bloody important we don’t bring up our daughters like this.

Oh I'm not a people pleaser.

Of the examples of the irritating behaviour given I would express my preferences; I have no interest whatsoever in feeding a random toddler or buying random ice-creams. I might be a bit puzzled why the trip out to whatever the extra special thing which everyone had seen apart from me turned into a mass event. That might irk me as it's being turned into a big thing for my benefit. And I suspect the OP presented it that way

I think the OP is protesting too much about not "inviting" the friend ( , no actual invite needed (but we did remind her of our holiday dates a few months ago ) / I did offer her a room because we had one free that week )mean, hypocritical and a bit needy in seeking validation for her behaviour.

5128gap · 14/08/2024 17:50

The other thing to note about people pleasers is that they often have very highly developed awareness of the moods and feelings of others. They will have spent much time learning to read others to ensure they are pleasing. Unfortunately this means that when you are even subtly irritated by a people pleaser, they will often know. This can set them off trying even harder to win back your approval, because they don't know its that that's displeased you, only that something has. So you get this awful vicious circle where the harder they try the more they annoy the harder they try.

3luckystars · 14/08/2024 17:50

That’s like my mother. I make Christmas dinner, she says

‘oh don’t go to any trouble, I’ll just have beans on toast!’

But that would mean making an extra meal? I’m already cooking the Christmas dinner for my own children so it’s no extra work to serve some to her.

‘Fine, I’ll just have tea and apple tart if that’s easier’

But that’s not what I’m having for dinner! That’s extra work to give her that while the dinner is going on. (Which is fairly normal btw, nothing too fancy, it’s roast chicken and vegetables)

She is very uncomfortable with people making an effort for her. My mother is a very generous person but hates gifts or ‘putting people out’ to the extreme.

Thepeopleversuswork · 14/08/2024 17:43

@endlessnonsense

The reason the thread has become polarised I think is because there are a lot of people pleasers in the world.

Sometimes this is due to anxiety or low self esteem and sometimes it’s because people think of being “nice” as a form of social “insurance”: ie if you don’t have strong feelings or opinions and you generally go along with the herd you can’t offend people.

When people realise that expunging all trace of personality isn’t a guaranteed route to popularity they often become defensive, as if they feel they are owed something. You see a version of this on these threads where people pop up to say: “I did everything right, I was completely selfless, why don’t I have any friends?”

When in fact being selfless, self effacing and completely lacking in conviction is a massive turn off. This in itself is often the reason people can’t make or keep friendships. Because there isn’t enough to them.

I do think it must be really hard to break this cycle if you have been socialised in this way. Which is why it’s so bloody important we don’t bring up our daughters like this.

Bellaboo01 · 14/08/2024 17:43

endlessnonsense · 14/08/2024 08:22

I have a friend (well, she's equally a friend of me and DH, she and her XH used to be our neighbours). We now only see her a couple of times a year as we live far away now, and I wouldn't call her a really close friend. When we go on holiday, which is to a hot seaside place in Europe, we often get friends joining us as we have a place to stay and a boat, which is fun. This year she came.

I spent a lot of the time she was here in a state of suppressed anger at her, which caused me to resent her being here. This is because she turned out, on a several-days long time together, rather than the odd dinner we usually have, to be constantly pretending (or was she pretending?) to be very thoughtful and considerate, when I felt she was being just the opposite, in a passive aggressive way.

Everywhere we suggested going and everything we suggested doing, she deferred to us, "oh I'll do whatever you want, don't worry about me", never offering any suggestions of her own or seeming especially enthusiatic. OK, fair enough, we know the place and she doesn't. But it went much further. She was always faux putting herself down/being the martyr/putting on performative sweetness.

My son has special needs and she is always supersweet to him, but I told her multiple times during the holiday, no, he doesn't want an ice cream, he doesn't like it. It must have run into more than a dozen times she said, "oh darling, do you want an ice cream, oh please let me get him an ice cream, I'll pay"(as though I wasn't getting him the ice cream myself because of meanness). (Strangely, although she knows he does like chocolate, she never once offered to buy him a chocolate)

We planned a trip to a particular place she hadn't been, specifically to show it to her. Other friends were coming too, they are local and had been to the place many times, but we're coming along to be sociable with us and her. When she asked me how many people were coming and I mentioned it would be quite a few (in positive way, saying it would be a fun social event) she said, all sweetly, "well if you don't have room for me I'll just stay behind at the apartment, I don't mind at all". That really annoyed me, she knew the trip was arranged specifically for her!

Another (even more annoying) example, we were at a beach bar/restaurant with a bunch of people. Too many to get one table so we were split between 2 tables. Our food came marginally before the other table's (not more than 2 or 3 minutes). In that time she expressed concern that the toddler at the other table had not yet got her food, and actually got up to take her own plate of food to the toddler (it was a salad of some sort and the toddler was getting chips, so not even remotely the same thing). Me and DH had to physically get her to stop it and sit down before the toddler's mum saw.

She has always been very much a "oh don't worry about me, I'll just have a tap water" type of person, but on this holiday she really got my goat. She's left now and I am not sure if she noticed I was a bit snippy with her by the end. AIBU and a mean friend?

In answer to your original question: Yes you are clearly being mean.

Original poster
endlessnonsense · 14/08/2024 17:42

I meant that I invited her as much as I invited anyone else, some of whom came and some didnt, as every year. Not just her and not because I pity her.

Not liking me is anyone's perogative, I am sure you aren't the only one!

OP posts:
Original poster
endlessnonsense · 14/08/2024 17:39

I don't see myself as a grand hostess either. We just happen to be rather set in our ways go to the same place on holiday every year, and when people tell us oh that sounds fun/ you always seem to have a nice time, we say well why don't you come next year, here is when we will be there. I did offer her a room because we had one free that week but most people organise their own accomodation.

OP posts:
IHaveNeverLivedintheCastle · 14/08/2024 17:37

On the "invite", she wasn't specifically "invited" per se as everyone we know has an open invitation to join us if they want, and she knows that, no actual invite needed (but we did remind her of our holiday dates a few months ago as we thought she might benefit from a nice holiday at this time if she wanted it, and we knew she is alone and her son is away this summer)

That's a very long winded backtracking. Of course that's an invitation.

You don't like her- fair enough. From what you've posted here I don't like you OP. And I certainly wouldn't trust you.

Tumblingjungleofchaos · 14/08/2024 17:34

Oceangreyscale · 14/08/2024 09:18

The thing is, her performative niceness is putting other people down isn't it?

I'll give the toddler my food because all the other adults aren't being thoughtful enough.

I won't go on the trip became you've potentially been inconsiderate enough not to leave space.

I'll buy the ice cream because you are too mean.

It makes you feel bad, and you haven't done anything wrong, and therefore resentful at being made to feel bad.

Yep this is the problem with people pleasing. It just comes across wrong so often.

Tumblingjungleofchaos · 14/08/2024 17:32

Thepeopleversuswork · 14/08/2024 09:00

I can’t bear performatively “nice” and “sweet” people who don’t have any opinions or personality of their own and expect to constantly trail along in other people’s wakes. It’s actually often highly passive aggressive: it’s a way to force people to tolerate you because they never give you anything to identify with, either positive or negative. I often find with these people that when you peel back tge onion layers of “niceness” they are usually manipulative and feel “entitled” to friendship because they are “nice”.

A lot of women unfortunately do this because they have been brought up to believe that being “nice” means never getting in anyone’s way or having any of your own thoughts.

I know a lot of people can’t really help it but it makes me want to shake them. If you never have a genuine thought of your own you don’t really earn your place in a society. Woman up FFS.

Really good explanation!

Original poster
endlessnonsense · 14/08/2024 17:16

Amazing how polarised this thread has become! On the "invite", she wasn't specifically "invited" per se as everyone we know has an open invitation to join us if they want, and she knows that, no actual invite needed (but we did remind her of our holiday dates a few months ago as we thought she might benefit from a nice holiday at this time if she wanted it, and we knew she is alone and her son is away this summer).

I never said I was bouncy (I am really not), nor am I particularly entertaining (my DH is the entertaining one, not me). As to whether she is "pretty", we are in our 60s and all about as "pretty" as each other at this stage, I would say. I don't see how that factors into anything. And she has not come on a holiday that is all couples. Single friends too, some divorced etc.

I get it that the answer to my original question about whether I am mean is a definite Yes for some. That was why I asked the question. Not looking for validation, but for opinions. Of which I now have plenty.

OP posts:
PlacidPenelope · 14/08/2024 17:08

Jellybeanbag · 14/08/2024 16:05

Is she pretty OP? Is this the real reason because she sounds lovely.

Of course you had to jump to that conclusion that the OP must be jealous of the friend because of their looks, such a dismissive sexist assumption.

The OP was irritated by the friend's behaviour and with good reason.

Cattery · 14/08/2024 17:06

Greyrockin · 14/08/2024 16:50

Bless...

Show quote history

Grow up

TheaBrandt · 14/08/2024 17:00

I think the angry people pleasers have
joined the thread!

selfesteemfan · 14/08/2024 16:52

Jellybeanbag · 14/08/2024 16:05

Is she pretty OP? Is this the real reason because she sounds lovely.

More than likely!

Greyrockin · 14/08/2024 16:50

Cattery · 14/08/2024 16:41

Well I’m not putting on an act and pretending to be sugary sweet. You sound an angry person

Edited
Show quote history

Bless...

Cattery · 14/08/2024 16:41

Greyrockin · 14/08/2024 16:28

whereas you sound quite delightful

Show quote history

Well I’m not putting on an act and pretending to be sugary sweet. You sound an angry person

Greyrockin · 14/08/2024 16:28

Cattery · 14/08/2024 15:29

No one’s that pissing “nice” all the time. We all have different moods. I’m suspicious of anyone who doesn’t. She sounds fake as fuck and attention-seeking.

whereas you sound quite delightful

DadJoke · 14/08/2024 16:27

@AudHvamm thank you! I didn't address the toddler food issue because I would have died of social embarrassment.

AudHvamm · 14/08/2024 16:08

DadJoke · 14/08/2024 15:28

If you think it's worth the time and effort, it's possible to deal with this kind of behaviour in a way which improves communication. It doesn't always work, but it's worth a try.

We'll assume that she genuinely wants to please people rather than she is manipulative.

If you say "we are going to this place with these people" and she says she doesn't want to be a burden, say "It would make me happy if you said whether you want to go or not based what you want, for you."

As for self-deprecating comments, brush them aside, and ask her what she wants.

For "I don't mind where we go," if it's indecision paralysis, fair enough, just decide. If not "It would really make me happy if you expressed a preference."

In general, if she really wants to make you happy, tell her what will make you happy, especially if that's expressing her own desires.

I had a friend who was way too self-deprecating when given a compliment, and I said "The correct answer to a compliment is thank you!" It took her a while to get to grips with it, but she's happier with accepting compliments now.

On the ice cream "he doesn't have ice cream, but he'd be very happy with X. Can you do that instead?"

Finally, if she likes being helpful, give her things to do that are helpful to you.

My MIL was of the manipulative kind, so I would play around with her a bit. When I asked her if she wanted tea or coffee and she said "whatever is the least trouble." I said - "I'm the host M, and what would make me happy is if I could please my guest."

On one occasion I asked her (out of context) how do you take your tea at home and circumvented the whole "however it comes" nonsense by making her the cup of tea she had lovingly described.

She never changed, though.

Thank you, I'll be borrowing these!