Am I being mean about the "supersweet" friend?

behind closed doors in a relationship over years your self worth can be crushed and your just still breaking out of that state finding your feet with life choices and social balance.
she is probably genuinely good and going out of her comfort zone.
she’ll find her way and balance but best you don’t include her in your future plans as she’s building and you might knock her back unknowingly

I could be wrong @endlessnonsense but what made you annoyed is that you tried to protect her from her own mistakes and she didn't listen.

Let her make mistakes, let her buy that ice-cream and your son won't want it and let her feed the toddler, it's not your embarrassment, it's hers. Let her stay behind or eat bread for dinner.

Being a good host doesn't mean you need to protect her from her own behaviour and choices. You must have felt responsible for her like she was your kid.

Her behaviour with others (e.g. feeding the toddler) is no reflection on you, her own free choice.

So the trick is, if it’s a perceived threat to recognise that and work to not people please, sit with the discomfort, sit with the fear that people may not like you and that you are enough as you are you don’t have to be doing things for people to be valuable you are valuable as just you.

This!

Also, we weren’t there and don’t know her so how on earth do any of us feel able to offer much to this post?
Also, you do sound a little bit mean about her, but as I say, none of us other than you were there so it doesn’t really matter what we think!

I can understand it might seem insane but believe me, covert narcissists are very subtle and so many things the OP described just scream of it to me. I’m not jumping on the narcissist bandwagon, me and my sister were pretty fucked up by our DM’s passive aggressive criticism as kids but she was so good at gaslighting us and playing the victim that we didn’t work it out until we were in our thirties. That was 20 years ago so it’s not a new concept to me and I know the signs!

I understand that.

It just seems insane to declare this woman a narcissist when she hasn't done anything cruel or hurtful.

Not everyone is a narcissist, except on MN.

I was raised by one so I think I know the signs. They don’t all act like Donald Trump!

Nothing suggests this woman is a narcissist! Lol

We know she's indecisive and her ex-husband is domineering. She is most likely anxious.

This is me on holiday with my sister in law . She won’t make any suggestions and if I do she says ‘that’s fine’ . It drives me batty

I will be working on creating a positive response to the parts of her I do like
Parts of her you do like? So gracious OP!
Perhaps this woman would rather know you don't like her, so she can spend her holidays and time, with those who actually want to be in her company?
I'm sure as you love sincerity so much, you'll have no trouble conveying how you really feel towards her?

YADNBU

I think she was trying to play up and attention seek to irritate you, because she's jealous of you and resents you.

You have what she hasn't got.

You have a great way about you (no nonsense, just live and enjoy). You have a great DH, DS and lifestyle, and she doesn't anymore (apart from her DS).

With people like this, they are never true genuine friends.

The condescending remarks about how well you and your DH cope with your DS, say it all to me.

Talk about wanting to rub it in, I would honestly feel like telling her to foxtrot Oscar.

She sounds a lot like my Mum, who most people think is “lovely” because you don’t really see her passive-aggressive side until you spend a lot of time with her. Have a look at this article about covert narcissists - I reckon a lot of it will sound familiar! https://geediting.com/sneaky-behaviors-of-a-high-functioning-covert-narcissist/#:~:text=Rather%20than%20insult%20or%20put,gaslighting%20all%20to%20their%20advantage.
Unlike out-and-out nasty narcissists, who want other people to see them as powerful, many covert ones are obsessed with other people thinking they are a good person - but instead of going to the trouble of actually BEING one, they use passive-aggressive behaviour and gaslighting to make people think they are. Take it from me, it’s exhausting to deal with and not worth your energy. I would have walked away years ago if she wasn’t my mum.

Again, as someone with clinical social anxiety, this genuinely surprised me... Of course there is a threat in adulthood! Or at least a perceived one to some people.

I think I might act like that friend a lot (and the more I read on forums the more I realise I am very annoying!) but if it offers a perspective, I've been diagnosed with social anxiety disorder for over 20 years. I can hear myself and annoy myself too, but also genuinely feel like I take up too much space and need to get out of people's way (whether that is not going on a trip, or stepping aside to let everyone go first in a queue situation etc).
I wasn't there, so idk, and I don't think I sound cheery when I do it... But anyway, I wouldn't feel bad about it, just don't invite her again, she might not feel comfortable going anyway.

That sounds like indecision to me. She cannot decide so she orders both. I have a friend who gets really anxious if asked to choose something on the spot, so she also says "I don't mind" or (even worse) starts listing reasons to choose both things. I think it's insecurity. She wanted to not be a burden or a bother and her actions actually backfired. Some people have been told that being polite means being out of the way. I get why she grinded you but if it's insecurity, she's not going to tell you that she rather stays on the beach or make decisions, fearing she might be swaying your preferences or those of the group. I think she was trying to please and didn't read the room properly. On the ice-cream, it's odd yes. But since it wasn't an allergy, she might have not put the extra level of attention to remember it or kept thinking that maybe a different ice cream or flavour or texture would be ok.

Can’t stand super sweet people, I haven’t got enough patience.

@ThatPeachSnake

I had a terrible childhood and bad parents who made me feel bad about everything I asked/said/did. I had to behave in a certain way otherwise I would be in trouble (aka, quiet, polite etc). I find myself still in that mindset at times, particularly when I meet new people and I am intimidated for whatever reason. I try not to be, of course, and have to remind myself that I am an adult who can do as they please.

That makes a lot of sense and clearly a lot of people have this sort of “curl up and protect myself” response. I am a fairly confident and socially comfortable person and I do this sometimes. It’s totally normal and understandable. Everyone feels shy or intimidated in certain situations.

But at risk of sounding like a dog with a bone I think that’s different from classic people pleasing, which is when it’s being done with a view to projecting a certain image.

In this case this is a woman whom the OP has known a long time and is reasonably comfortable with.

The episode with rushing to give salad to the toddler in particular is very much not about “curl up and protect myself”. It’s “look at me!”. (But in a guardedly “nice” way). A genuinely shy or withdrawn person would not have done that.

Yes, all people pleasing is calculated - it's done for a reason, you get something out of it. Now as a child it may have meant you didn't get hit or worse but it's when it carries on into adulthood where there is no threat that there's an issue.

Crikey can anyone hear S Club 7???

That is the best answer.

I had a terrible childhood and bad parents who made me feel bad about everything I asked/said/did. I had to behave in a certain way otherwise I would be in trouble (aka, quiet, polite etc). I find myself still in that mindset at times, particularly when I meet new people and I am intimidated for whatever reason. I try not to be, of course, and have to remind myself that I am an adult who can do as they please.

I’ve likely irritated people in my life being like this sometimes but I would hope they are kind and understanding of this part of me, like I am of the things they do that might irritate me a bit - like being too forceful or loud or whatever it may be. I still love the people in my life and wouldn’t speak badly of them, because none of that stuff is a big deal. Everyone is different and no one is perfect.

It's not awful at all, it's the truth in a lot of cases. I refer to my mother's friends who are widows as 'the merry widows' because they have a great time of it mostly and in many cases, can rely more on each other for support than they could on their husbands if they were still alive.

Yes. And, this sounds an awful thing to say, but I believe older widows can find that they have a new lease of life.