Am I being mean about the "supersweet" friend?

This would annoy me too. Walking over to a toddler with a salad… I mean what?

My grandmother was like this. Everything was "oh I couldn't possibly" "oh don't worry about me" " oh no that's far too much for me" when in fact the not so subtle message (in her case) was "you should be paying much more attention to me".

This thread is fascinating, and I think I would have behaved like your friend at a previous time in my life. The thing about offering not to go on the day out is bonkers and annoying, and probably something I would have done. (I would put myself in situations where I wanted something, but when people offered to do it, I would refuse to accept it and say "don't bother". And then later regret it, and be sad/angry. Crazy.)

As a PP said, some people (out of anxiety and trauma) have a "jammed brain" and feel constantly overwhelmed. I was like that. I can't remember entire trips or episodes of my past, and I couldn't make decisions or see a situation clearly.

I grew up in a house where my mum's needs were the only ones that mattered (the only ones that existed, I'd say). I grew up trying to please everyone and desperate for people to like me. But of course that's not sincere, as I was denying my own needs and wants - perhaps people thought I was fake and manipulative (I was always angry and full of resentment deep down). But that was the only way I thought someone could like me.

And yes, I had a couple of abusive relationships, including a long abusive marriage.

I don't know if someone could have helped me at that time. Maybe if someone had infinite amounts of patience to stick through the whole process, giving me reassurance. But of course, that's not realistic and no one should endure that.

I've been through loads of therapy and soul-searching in the last few years and I'm different now. I can voice my needs and wants, and I'm not as desperate to be liked as before ("desperate" is the right word, in my case).

Regarding decisions and "I don't mind", I see it very differently: I'm a solo mother and have a career, so I spend my whole day making decisions and being responsible for others. I consider a trip or an outing without making decisions as a treat. I love it when people organise things for me, and make it very clear I appreciate it.

She does sound very annoying the way your describe it! But it may be that someone else in your place would not have found her particularly annoying and so would have written a very different description of our time together.

Regardless though, clearly you are not compatible holiday companions. So (depending on how your partner feels about it) I'd try (nicely) to stick to shorter get togethers in future.

You may not see yourself that way but that's how you come across to me on the basis of this thread.

Totally - turns out OP is rather mean spirited and unpleasant. Who would think?

Agree. I think she felt a bit wrong footed being a 'third wheel' on the holiday so was just trying to not be a nuisance. I'm not seeing any of it as 'performative'.

You really don't like her do you? You are coming across as quite snidey and passive aggressive with the precise and rather nasty methodology that you are employing to pick apart her comments and actions. Have you memorised all her comments or something, it is weird? Just don't be friends with her - far better than creating nasty and underhand posts on mumsnet.

Honestly, how would you suggest dealing this type of behaviour? Just sort of accept and ignore - don't engage in it? I also struggle not to get irritated and don't want to avoid this person (as they have so many other lovely qualities).

If you stay calm, don't get exasperated, and listen to their opinions with respect when they express them, they may calm down and the behaviour become less evident. Asking their advice about a situation in your life, however small, also works - it allows them to express opinions and show intelligence and judgement because it is not about them. You would want to avoid obvious irritation, making a fuss (eg about a day trip you didn't particularly want to go on and felt they were not grateful and excited enough about) and stressful social situations with lots of strangers.

Wow there are some really mean people on this thread! I hope nobody recognises themselves from all these descriptions of your 'loser' mates.

although I guess, deep down, to be honest, I always considered her a bit of a wet blanket compared to my other friends. She has been going through a breakup from her XH and we thought she could use a fun holiday , that's why we invited her.

So basically, you've never liked her, think you and your other friends are better/ more interesting/ more exciting and this was a pity invitation.

I can't really tell as this account is obviously one- sided, but tbh you both sound like hard work and I'm not sure I'd trust either of you.

God, how irritating. I can't bear a martyr. And almost impossible to resolve because she didn't specifically do anything unkind or rude.

Honest opinion OP- You come across as hard work yourself.

There's something performative about how much you go on about this place and your boat and your large number of friends who all spontaneously want to do mass, fun outings. Tbh I'm not sure I'd want to go on holiday with either of you.

I can’t bear the “I don’t mind” all the time. Have an opinion!!! Especially if, having said you don’t mind, you actually do mind and will complain about it later…

That reminds me a lot of my aunt. I genuinely couldn't tell you who she really is, behind the performatively sweet facade. I know there's some kind of fucked up family dynamic going on- I don't think her and my dad's parents were very nice to them, and although my dad sees her regularly he's a bit domineering and dismissive of her. My mum is an out and out bitch to her, and has been all my life. There's also neurodiversity in the family- I'm autistic, have suspicions about my dad, and often wonder if she's heavily masking. Every time I have suggested something she might like to try and engage her, she's smiled sweetly and said "How kind, maybe another time". I guess she'll remain an enigma forever at this point.

Genuinely interested in the view that this is a trauma response. One of the people I know who has these tendencies has been in several abusive relationships.

Honestly, how would you suggest dealing this type of behaviour? Just sort of accept and ignore - don't engage in it? I also struggle not to get irritated and don't want to avoid this person (as they have so many other lovely qualities).

Regardless of whether it’s a trauma response or not, it is behaviour that is designed to make other people behave in a certain way, and the person doing it, if an adult, needs to manage their own behaviour, whatever its origins, and acknowledge that it may push other people away.

I have a fairly serious eating disorder stemming from a childhood where my mother tended to think that feeding a baby/small child could wait till other, more important household jobs had been done, and where there wasn’t much food, anyway. I’ve had lots of therapy, and am working on it, but I’m still sometimes anxious about food, especially in situations where supply and timings are out of my control for long periods, such as being on holiday. I’ve just got back from a fortnight’s holiday with friends, where I knew there were a couple of things I was going to struggle with, partly because of a recent death. So I talked to the friend I am closest to, told her the situation and what I was going to do to manage it, and that there was one thing that would be considered ‘normal’ for a holiday that I was not going to be doing. She respected that, I managed my stuff with minimum impact on other people, and we all had a good time. I’m back to therapy tomorrow to keep working.

Which is a long way round of saying that having an ingrained trauma response to something doesn’t mean you, ans ann andult, aren’t responsible for dealing with it.

I have a friend like this. A so-called people pleaser, but like others have already pointed out, they end up doing the opposite of pleasing people because it's so clearly fake and try hard.

One time I was sleeping over at here place and I almost told her to stfu and let me sleep because she kept asking me a million questions, like do I want noise or silence, the window open or closed etc.

It all screams “fawning” to me. She’s desperate to be liked and terrified of upsetting everyone. She thinks if she’s ultra nice, smiley and helpful she can’t be hurt or disliked.

Sounds like young me. I bet her ex and her parents are the type of people where you have to walk on eggshells around.

I wasn’t aware until I got older and wiser that it doesn’t come across how you think it will. People find you annoying, a bit “pollyanna” or think you’re being fake and you come across as a bit of an airhead for not having any preferences or opinions.

(Also narcissists spot you a mile off! But that’s another subject.)

My DH has an aunt like this. She ended up having a nervous breakdown, I think the behaviour is anxiety based.

Yes, I agree.

And far too many armchair psychologists. Maybe some of them need to put their 'skills' to good use and look at why this has stirred up so much anger in them.

This reminds me of an old school friend.
She got married in her early twenties.
Divorced a few years later.
I couldn't believe her husband who I thought was ugly, no career, all round loser would divorce her.
She was very beautiful (probably still is) and nice.
He was lucky to have her.

When we met up and she started to tell me the stuff that had gone in her marriage etc - I eventually realised if I was him I would have divorced her too.

She had no opinion on anything at all.
She couldn't tell when something was blindingly obvious.
She copied what I ordered from the menu at the restaurant and then copied me again when I changed my mind!

I saw her whispering to her daughter when I arrived at her house to collect her before we went to the restaurant - her daughter ran towards me and jumped on me for a hug - I couldn't believe she told her daughter to do that - did she think I was so stupid that I'm not going to recognise this fake behaviour?!

Then the restaurant thing happened.

By the end of it it I didn't want to see her again.
I realised she was like this at school too - hanger on, indecisive, not really a friend, someone so insecure that hung onto anyone within proximity so she could get along in life.

When we all went onto to do A-levels and she didn't have what it took and did some other course she stopped talking to us because then she had those new course people to look after her.

Somehow, her behaviour didn't bother me at school.
Her first marriage was an arranged marriage - her second one is an arranged marriage to a guy form India - no idea how that one is is getting on but, I'd imagine he'll tolerate her for other reasons.

She didn't pass her GCSE's - can't drive - just don't get people like this.

I'm with you OP. There are two types of " people pleasers " - those who are genuinely so unconfident, damaged, full of anxiety that they will do anything not to rub others the wrong way, in fear of being rejected or bullied OR the other manipulative type, where they want to be seen as holier than thou, enjoy playing the martyr, are passive aggressive and like to stir the pot for which they can never be blamed as they are so ' innocent ' and ' sweet'. If you don't have experience of the two different types, you'd be fooled into thinking they're one and the same but truthfully, their motivations are very far apart. Your friend is the second type.

I had an old friend who was like this - we'd arrange a day out and then come nearer the time I'd get the inevitable messages saying I don't mind if you've changed your mind and want to cancel, you must have a lot on, You've probably got better things to do than hang out with me. I couldn't understand where this came from as I'd never given any indication I was ' doing her a favour ' by meeting up and I genuinely looked forward to seeing her. Finally it dawned on me that far from being an innocent, self deprecating gesture, it was her that didn't actually want to meet and she was pushing me to rearrange so she could get what she wanted, and enabled her to ' play victim ' as the bonus. Mind games. This is only one small example of her behaviour, there were many more.

Your friend has shown she doesn't respect your boundaries ( your request not to give ice cream to your ds for one), but has overstepped under the guise of being nice and kind, whilst trying to imply that you're the unreasonable/ tight one. I would be rethinking your friendship moving forward.