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AIBU?

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Original poster

Am I being mean about the "supersweet" friend?

532 replies

endlessnonsense · 14/08/2024 08:22

I have a friend (well, she's equally a friend of me and DH, she and her XH used to be our neighbours). We now only see her a couple of times a year as we live far away now, and I wouldn't call her a really close friend. When we go on holiday, which is to a hot seaside place in Europe, we often get friends joining us as we have a place to stay and a boat, which is fun. This year she came.

I spent a lot of the time she was here in a state of suppressed anger at her, which caused me to resent her being here. This is because she turned out, on a several-days long time together, rather than the odd dinner we usually have, to be constantly pretending (or was she pretending?) to be very thoughtful and considerate, when I felt she was being just the opposite, in a passive aggressive way.

Everywhere we suggested going and everything we suggested doing, she deferred to us, "oh I'll do whatever you want, don't worry about me", never offering any suggestions of her own or seeming especially enthusiatic. OK, fair enough, we know the place and she doesn't. But it went much further. She was always faux putting herself down/being the martyr/putting on performative sweetness.

My son has special needs and she is always supersweet to him, but I told her multiple times during the holiday, no, he doesn't want an ice cream, he doesn't like it. It must have run into more than a dozen times she said, "oh darling, do you want an ice cream, oh please let me get him an ice cream, I'll pay"(as though I wasn't getting him the ice cream myself because of meanness). (Strangely, although she knows he does like chocolate, she never once offered to buy him a chocolate)

We planned a trip to a particular place she hadn't been, specifically to show it to her. Other friends were coming too, they are local and had been to the place many times, but we're coming along to be sociable with us and her. When she asked me how many people were coming and I mentioned it would be quite a few (in positive way, saying it would be a fun social event) she said, all sweetly, "well if you don't have room for me I'll just stay behind at the apartment, I don't mind at all". That really annoyed me, she knew the trip was arranged specifically for her!

Another (even more annoying) example, we were at a beach bar/restaurant with a bunch of people. Too many to get one table so we were split between 2 tables. Our food came marginally before the other table's (not more than 2 or 3 minutes). In that time she expressed concern that the toddler at the other table had not yet got her food, and actually got up to take her own plate of food to the toddler (it was a salad of some sort and the toddler was getting chips, so not even remotely the same thing). Me and DH had to physically get her to stop it and sit down before the toddler's mum saw.

She has always been very much a "oh don't worry about me, I'll just have a tap water" type of person, but on this holiday she really got my goat. She's left now and I am not sure if she noticed I was a bit snippy with her by the end. AIBU and a mean friend?

OP posts:
Donotneedit · 14/08/2024 14:23

Thepeopleversuswork · 14/08/2024 09:32

So maybe I’m projecting but I feel sorry for her, she sounds overwhelmed and like she is trying to contain it/ cover it up so as not to be a downer. Being overwhelmed would account for repeatedly offering the ice cream, it’s kind of like running a default program because your brain is a bit jammed up

I get this and if you are sad or low it can be an effort to be “sparkly”. I can relate to being distanced or low key because you are feeling like this. But this is different.

This is trying to use yourself as an agreeable one-size-fits-all service human without and personality because you think (consciously or otherwise) it will make people like you more.

Its absolutely endemic in women because of a certain kind of upbringing (usually by a mother who is herself like this.) It’s dishonest and profoundly unhelpful because the women who do it end up bitter and frustrated when other don’t respond well to it.

Where’s your evidence for that though? It just seems you’ve got an idea about what she was doing and who she is with very little indication from the OP. She is in somebody else’s space, maybe having a bit of a shit time anyway, trying to fit in and picking up on the host being annoyed and imo quite intolerant. anyone would feel awkward. Some of the most socially anxious and awkward people I know are men as well. It’s maybe how we deal with it, withdrawal, over compensation, submission… anyway I’m glad it wasn’t me on the trip. Sounds bleak and I bet she is glad to be home

AcrosstheKenyanGrasslands · 14/08/2024 14:12

@Bluescapes9 this friend though invited herself on the holiday. Why would you do that if you didn't like groups? You can't ask to join another person's holiday and then be annoyed that they also invite others surely?

IHaveNeverLivedintheCastle · 14/08/2024 14:09

Danbury · 14/08/2024 13:30

This sounds most ungracious. This woman might be making conversation with each person because she might need conversation, what with being a divorcee. I'd be very happy to be part of a group where the same person spoke to me at every meet. So many people these days just ignore others.
Also, someone's got to do the tidying-up. She obviously doesn't mind doing it, and maybe she enjoys tidying-up?! Maybe it's a diversion from the shyness she is feeling?
Finally, someone saying they are shy to other people is actually very useful. Other people will then know that the person's behaviour stems from shyness. Nice people will make moves to help that person come out of their shell.

Show quote history

Agreed. What an appalling post LeontineFrance

Motherland2624 · 14/08/2024 14:04

I think I’m like this I think it’s from my childhood like never to have a opinion and just do as I’m told
if I buy something I really want like new trainers I don’t wear them because I think they are too nice for me
I’m weird lol

Bluescapes9 · 14/08/2024 14:02

Meant to add to my last post my children are young adults now so we get to go away on our own. The fact is even when they were still at school I can't imagine contemplating group holidays. I'd need a holiday to get over it. I do feel for your friend OP but I'd support her in other ways,not on my family holiday but each to their own.

Atethehalloweenchocs · 14/08/2024 13:59

There was another thread recently on here about people pleasers and whether this was manipulative. People can be really nice. Or it can be deeply inauthentic and with the intention of propping themselves up in some way, rather than from helping or being nice to others. She sounds exhausting to be around.

5128gap · 14/08/2024 13:55

You're being mean. The woman is just coming out of a marriage and is finding her place as the single friend alongside the couples. She's probably acutely aware of being a bit of a charity case for people who think she 'needs a fun time' and are doing this and that 'for' her, rather than with her as an equal participant in the group. She doesn't want to be a burden or a nuisance and is over compensating for that. The dynamic has shifted for all of you now she's become 'poor Jane, all on her own and needs a nice time' and your friendship may not survive it.

theonewiththejellyfish · 14/08/2024 13:50

OMG this sounds like someone I know! Im so glad you posted and others have commented some useful tips, it makes me feel sane!

parkrun500club · 14/08/2024 13:49

CoffeeCantata · 14/08/2024 13:30

This has reminded me of a colleague from long ago...

We all worked hard and for little money, for a charity. A Christmas meal was arranged at a local pub as a rare treat (we were paying for ourselves, of course) and an irritating member of the group said 'I think, in a world where people are starving, it would be obscene for us to go and stuff ourselves with rich food when we don't need it. Let's have soup and bread in the office instead.'

We told the person they were welcome to have their soup and bread in the office, but we were going to the pub!

It was performative meekness, competitive niceness and general pain-in-the-backside-ness.

That was the right response.

Something similar happened in my workplace many years ago and people said "oh yes you are right we shouldn't go out and spend money when there's a financial crisis" and we didn't have a Christmas lunch. Instead of letting people decide whether to come along or not, or just coming for a drink.

There are people who are serious people pleasers - my MIL would have fallen into that category although perhaps not to this extent - I think she would have remembered about the ice cream after the second day. But it would annoy me too. It can be annoying on a micro level as well. DH asks me if I want strawberry or raspberry ice cream and I genuinely don't mind so I say I don't mind, but he wants me to make a decision Grin

Bluescapes9 · 14/08/2024 13:49

endlessnonsense · 14/08/2024 08:22

I have a friend (well, she's equally a friend of me and DH, she and her XH used to be our neighbours). We now only see her a couple of times a year as we live far away now, and I wouldn't call her a really close friend. When we go on holiday, which is to a hot seaside place in Europe, we often get friends joining us as we have a place to stay and a boat, which is fun. This year she came.

I spent a lot of the time she was here in a state of suppressed anger at her, which caused me to resent her being here. This is because she turned out, on a several-days long time together, rather than the odd dinner we usually have, to be constantly pretending (or was she pretending?) to be very thoughtful and considerate, when I felt she was being just the opposite, in a passive aggressive way.

Everywhere we suggested going and everything we suggested doing, she deferred to us, "oh I'll do whatever you want, don't worry about me", never offering any suggestions of her own or seeming especially enthusiatic. OK, fair enough, we know the place and she doesn't. But it went much further. She was always faux putting herself down/being the martyr/putting on performative sweetness.

My son has special needs and she is always supersweet to him, but I told her multiple times during the holiday, no, he doesn't want an ice cream, he doesn't like it. It must have run into more than a dozen times she said, "oh darling, do you want an ice cream, oh please let me get him an ice cream, I'll pay"(as though I wasn't getting him the ice cream myself because of meanness). (Strangely, although she knows he does like chocolate, she never once offered to buy him a chocolate)

We planned a trip to a particular place she hadn't been, specifically to show it to her. Other friends were coming too, they are local and had been to the place many times, but we're coming along to be sociable with us and her. When she asked me how many people were coming and I mentioned it would be quite a few (in positive way, saying it would be a fun social event) she said, all sweetly, "well if you don't have room for me I'll just stay behind at the apartment, I don't mind at all". That really annoyed me, she knew the trip was arranged specifically for her!

Another (even more annoying) example, we were at a beach bar/restaurant with a bunch of people. Too many to get one table so we were split between 2 tables. Our food came marginally before the other table's (not more than 2 or 3 minutes). In that time she expressed concern that the toddler at the other table had not yet got her food, and actually got up to take her own plate of food to the toddler (it was a salad of some sort and the toddler was getting chips, so not even remotely the same thing). Me and DH had to physically get her to stop it and sit down before the toddler's mum saw.

She has always been very much a "oh don't worry about me, I'll just have a tap water" type of person, but on this holiday she really got my goat. She's left now and I am not sure if she noticed I was a bit snippy with her by the end. AIBU and a mean friend?

It all sounds very stressful & exactly why I relish holidays with just DH & I doing what we want when we want.

Pookerrod · 14/08/2024 13:46

Another one here to say my mum does this and it’s fills me with rage!

The whole “I don’t mind” thing is actually really selfish!!

What would you like to do today? - I don’t mind
Where do you fancy going for dinner? - I don’t mind
Shall we eat in or out? - I don’t mind

It drive me fucking crazy! It’s not helpful, it’s not kind, it puts all the responsibility for arranging and making decisions onto you.

😡😡😡😡😡

betterangels · 14/08/2024 13:45

Bellsandthistle · 14/08/2024 13:43

She makes conversation with each person when she arrives

Have we really come to a place in society where this is considered a terrible thing?
Also, if a day trip had been arranged to show me a local area and then found out a whole bunch of people I didn’t know were also tagging along, I’d feel super anxious and a bit annoyed.

Agree.

Marinade · 14/08/2024 13:45

bonzaitree · 14/08/2024 12:42

This would annoy me too. Walking over to a toddler with a salad… I mean what?

Yes she ought to be hung drawn and quartered for this.

Bellsandthistle · 14/08/2024 13:43

She makes conversation with each person when she arrives

Have we really come to a place in society where this is considered a terrible thing?
Also, if a day trip had been arranged to show me a local area and then found out a whole bunch of people I didn’t know were also tagging along, I’d feel super anxious and a bit annoyed.

Marinade · 14/08/2024 13:43

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Previously banned poster.

Yeah I totally believe this...

selfesteemfan · 14/08/2024 13:42

She sounds like a mate of mine, awful parents and she's always felt unwelcome and unliked so often overcompensates in social situation by putting herself down before others do, not that they ever would've but she's been put down so much it's all she feels she deserves.

You clearly don't like her, I think you're a bit mean tbh, sorry.

Mongrelsrbeautiful · 14/08/2024 13:41

ThatPeachSnake · 14/08/2024 11:47

People have different personalities and temperaments. Maybe some
people are nervous and just want to fit in and try a bit too hard.

I think some of the comments on this thread seem so cruel. 😔

I couldn't agree more - if these were passive agressive /manipulative acts it would show in other ways too. She sounds very anxious/eager to please/dare I say kind? She's just broke up with her DP - maybe this or the actual marriage has contributed to these behaviours. I agree it can be irritating, but she probably needs friendship and support at the moment. It's mean to assume she is not genuine.

TemuSpecialBuy · 14/08/2024 13:40

theleafandnotthetree · 14/08/2024 11:00

While some of us who are more assertive, the default position amongst lots of Irish people is to be 'I don't mind'-ish and easy-going, sometimes to the point of being infuriating. And some of those self same people will bitch horribly beforehand or afterwards rather than say there and then in front of others saying what they think/mean. I have been hung out to dry at meetings due the this behaviour which I see as cowardice rather than niceness/politeness. I know a few Dutch people in particular who live here who find our lack of directness infuriating.

Show quote history

This is sooooo true

I see it especially at funerals and weddings about logistics and arrangements.
its all “no don’t worry your head” “ah no it’s no bother at all” and “sure whatever suits, we’re easy”

and afterwards it’s all “would you not think she’d have a bit of cop on” and “Jesus I couldn’t imagine doing X. Their mother was all together mortified I’d say”

ultimately op it’s your holiday and you want to relax. Her behaviour, to you, was deeply unrelaxing so I just wouldn’t invite her again

RedHelenB · 14/08/2024 13:39

Awrite · 14/08/2024 08:25

Not sure if you are being unreasonable but you are not her friend.

I feel sorry for her.

This.

Greyrockin · 14/08/2024 13:39

Also - I hope she's not on MN, as I'm sure she will be able to work out this thread is about her if she stumbled across it.

Greyrockin · 14/08/2024 13:37

Did you talk to other people on the holiday about how annoying you were finding her OP? Was there some eye-rolling going on? My guess is that she picked up on the fact that she was annoying you (obviously as you've said you were snippy with her at least a couple of times), but she didn't really know what she was doing wrong so she doubled down on trying not to be a 'bother' to anyone.

Your recent posts have you admitting that actually you don't like her, and I think she knows that deep down, but she likes you and your family. If you want to drop her as a friend fine, but hopefully you won't ghost her and you'll giver her honest feedback if she ever asks if she's done something to upset you.

PumpkinPieAlibi · 14/08/2024 13:31

pinacollateral · 14/08/2024 08:55

Sounds like your personalities just don't mesh well together.

I'm not sure what you want from this thread really - are you wanting everyone to validate that she sounds really annoying and say it's OK for you to not be friends with her? It's a really unpleasant thread.

If you don't want to be friends anymore then just cool off and don't invite her again. You're not 13.

Yes, exactly.

I feel sorry for the friend because I see some of my behaviour in her and it truly is NOT manipulative as some have said. Is it so hard to realise that some people, due to a lack of self-esteem and confidence, may try to make themselves as unobtrusive and amenable to others as possible? It's partly to be likeable but also to avoid attention, which if you have ever been in an abusive relationship or had a difficult upbringing, just becomes second-nature.

The number of posts calling the friend annoying, a martyr, manipulative, performative and all manner of unnecessarily mean things is quite sad. Granted, the ice cream thing was definitely uncalled for but the others were her probably just trying to be fit in to the existing group dynamic and her way of being grateful for being included in the first place.

I am projecting now, but this thread answers some of my questions as to why I sometimes struggle socially. No matter how genuinely nice and helpful you may try to be, it is sometimes just not enough.

Riqwihr · 14/08/2024 13:31

Danbury · 14/08/2024 13:17

There are instances of when people say that they 'don't mind', e.g. what they have for lunch, that they genuinely do not mind. If I eat pretty much anything, and don't fancy anything in particular, if someone were to ask me what I wanted to eat, I would say that I didn't mind, and let them choose.
Surely this is normal behaviour, or does it now have to be reclassified as 'people pleasing' behaviour?!

As a one-off, or occasional thing, not a problem. If I genuinely don't mind, I say so. But surely you can see that if you literally say 'I don't mind' in all situations involving a choice, you place the burden of choice on the other person because you're refusing to voice an opinion? I can think of someone I know who does this largely because she doesn't want to take on the consequences of the decision if it turns out badly, to be a dud meal or a boring hike or a bad gig or whatever.

Y

CoffeeCantata · 14/08/2024 13:30

This has reminded me of a colleague from long ago...

We all worked hard and for little money, for a charity. A Christmas meal was arranged at a local pub as a rare treat (we were paying for ourselves, of course) and an irritating member of the group said 'I think, in a world where people are starving, it would be obscene for us to go and stuff ourselves with rich food when we don't need it. Let's have soup and bread in the office instead.'

We told the person they were welcome to have their soup and bread in the office, but we were going to the pub!

It was performative meekness, competitive niceness and general pain-in-the-backside-ness.

Danbury · 14/08/2024 13:30

LeontineFrance · 14/08/2024 08:55

She reminds me of a divorcee we have in our social group who goes out of her way to please everyone. She makes conversation with each person when she arrives, does all the tea and coffee making and washing up and tells us all how shy she is. It is embarrassing how she puts herself out to fit in. Just not your fit. Neither of you is right or wrong. Just keep a wide berth of her.

This sounds most ungracious. This woman might be making conversation with each person because she might need conversation, what with being a divorcee. I'd be very happy to be part of a group where the same person spoke to me at every meet. So many people these days just ignore others.
Also, someone's got to do the tidying-up. She obviously doesn't mind doing it, and maybe she enjoys tidying-up?! Maybe it's a diversion from the shyness she is feeling?
Finally, someone saying they are shy to other people is actually very useful. Other people will then know that the person's behaviour stems from shyness. Nice people will make moves to help that person come out of their shell.

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