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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think this is fucking crazy

436 replies

itstheendoftheworldasweknowitnow · 13/08/2024 15:46

We’re en route to a holiday rental in France. I wasn’t sure if the pool was shared or not between other guests so emailed the owner to ask. This is his reply - which I put in to google translate
Could you tell me if sharing the swimming pool with us who occupy the ground floor bothers you and for what reason? Recently we refused the rental because the wife and the two young daughters were veiled; are you english or muslim? We do not want you to make the trip and see yourself refused access to our property for reasons of displaying religious beliefs which are very resented by the neighborhood.

Fuck Fuck Fuck
What the hell do I do?
I am not a Muslim.
I am also not a racist.

OP posts:
BargingOnBy · 13/08/2024 18:38

Livelovebehappy · 13/08/2024 18:37

Just enjoy your hols. You don’t usually mix with the owners anyway, as they normally live off site. None of us know who we walk amongst on holiday, or anywhere really.

Have you read the post? They will be sharing the pool with the owners

Livelovebehappy · 13/08/2024 18:37

Just enjoy your hols. You don’t usually mix with the owners anyway, as they normally live off site. None of us know who we walk amongst on holiday, or anywhere really.

BargingOnBy · 13/08/2024 18:35

Primroses1 · 13/08/2024 18:33

How did m pyou booki it? If via Booking.com or similar mayb you can cancel via them

apologies for typos. Brok phone screen.

OP doesn’t want to cancel it, she just wants to appear to take the moral high ground without actually taking any action.

Negroany · 13/08/2024 18:35

We've all probably stayed in loads of places with racist owners but didn't know.

I wonder why asking if the pool is shared led him to jump to that question!?

Primroses1 · 13/08/2024 18:33

How did m pyou booki it? If via Booking.com or similar mayb you can cancel via them

apologies for typos. Brok phone screen.

Applesonthelawn · 13/08/2024 18:30

Just go.In my experience (and my in laws are European, lived there for many years) it is far more acceptable to say that sort of thing there than here in UK. You stand to gain literally nothing by taking the moral high ground here.

Sd352 · 13/08/2024 18:27

Everyone glossing over the obvious racism is being disingenuous. Would go, try to enjoy your holiday for now (and not let on that you are upset) but then write a scathing review.
Consider also reporting to the booking site.

I am neither English nor Muslim but I suspect this person would have a problem with me because I am brown.

IdgieThreadgoodeIsMyHeroine · 13/08/2024 18:26

Ah, yes, the two distinct categories of human beings: English and Muslim.

MoodEnhancer · 13/08/2024 18:25

Burka ban or otherwise, the owner is plainly racist. They asked if you are English OR Muslim, as though one can’t be both.

If you have paid there is little you can do about this. But I would notify Booking.com and write a scathing review after I left.

Mirabai · 13/08/2024 18:23

VisitationRights · 13/08/2024 17:51

The hypocrisy of going but then planning to report them. Either stand by your principles and cancel, asking booking for your money and the reason why or go and forget it.

Good grief. I’m not even white and I’m not prepared to sacrifice my holiday, he would just have to suck it up.

How do you think poc function if they have to go home every time they meet a racist?

TempestTost · 13/08/2024 18:23

BigWillyLittleTodger · 13/08/2024 18:03

I understand that, though when you purchase a iPhone it doesn’t have a label on it saying ‘produced by child labour’ on it, most people don’t think of that when they are buying the latest gadget, even though we all should, it’s very much out of sight out of mind, however the OP has been directly informed of the owners racist views of which the OP abhors, it’s the handwringing and posting on Mumsnet about how awful it is but goes ahead anyway, as if the virtue signalling on here absolves her somehow.

I think this is kind of bs.

We all know how these products come to us. Slave labour in factories. Slaves in mines, who will die young. Child labour.

People get all het up about historic slavery and virtue signal about it, and act as if people in the past could somehow live outside of the economic systems they found themselves in.

As if we don't make our peace doing the same by pushing it out of mind.

Mistresstotheworkwife · 13/08/2024 18:21

babyproblems · 13/08/2024 18:15

@itstheendoftheworldasweknowitnow having read your update with the original message you’ve received he’s not being rude - he’s been quite matter of fact enquiring why it would bother you to share the pool. If I was going to translate for you (I speak fluent french) in a ‘British’ friendly way I would say the message says the following:

Can you let us know if the sharing of the pool bothers you? We recently refused a rental because the lady and her daughters were veiled - wondering if you are Muslim and is this the issue? (Meaning you wouldn’t want to share the pool with them because you would t be comfortable as you might be Muslim?)
We wouldn’t want you to travel for no reason if this is the case as we have had to refuse some guests due to showing signs of religion (which is an infringement) and our neighbours have issue with it.
cheers! (Cordialement)

(possible they don’t care but neighbours have contacted the police for example!!!)

im not saying they’re not racist but I wouldn’t freak out to the nth degree based on the message. Hope that helps!!

You conveniently left out the part where they asked if they were English or Muslim...this is plain racist/bigoted and it sounded plain racist/bigoted in French too. Being Muslim is not a nationality and English is very obviously used here as a stand in for 'white'. Also implying Muslims cannot be English. In what world is this acceptable?!

CatherinedeBourgh · 13/08/2024 18:21

MissingMoominMamma · 13/08/2024 18:18

How can they stop people from wearing whatever swimwear they want?

What if you had been badly burned and didn’t want to show your scars, but still wanted to swim- would they ask you to leave a pool?

Thats bonkers.

Yep.

If I had my way I would have as many non muslim women as I could get to wear burkinis in the beach. Then they would no longer be 'religious symbols' and would not be illegal...

They've even banned muslim girls from wearing long black skirts.

They are brazen in their islamophobia.

Allthegoodnamesarechosen · 13/08/2024 18:21

Non, il n’y a une problème.
A bientôt

Nightowl1234 · 13/08/2024 18:21

BargingOnBy · 13/08/2024 15:54

This. No need to pretend to be woke about it.

Well we know exactly who you are from that unnecessary response.

Boomer55 · 13/08/2024 18:20

Blondiebeachbabe · 13/08/2024 18:14

What a load of drama over nothing. You don't fit into the demographic they aren't comfortable with, so no drama, just enjoy your holiday.

This. No need for a drama. Enjoy your holiday.🍾🍾

CatherinedeBourgh · 13/08/2024 18:19

I lived in Provence for 15 years. If OP cancels, there is every chance that wherever she books in replacement will be exactly the same. It is the region of France with the highest proportion of FN voters, racism is rampant.

What he said is 100% racist. Racism is absolutely mainstream, particularly against muslims. But I've also been attacked for being English.

And to @Lacdulancelot : a couple of years ago homeschooling was made illegal other than in some tightly controlled circumstances. We homeschool and when we discussed it with the school inspector (who was generally lovely and very supportive of us homeschooling) he said 'about 10% of the children I inspect are from muslim families, where the women wear head coverings. That's why it has to be made only by prior approval. So that those children have to go to school.' Where they will be served pork for lunch and they have to take lunch at school...

MissingMoominMamma · 13/08/2024 18:18

ButtSurgery · 13/08/2024 15:53

Remember that in France it's illegal to wear the hijab ("veiled") in public. Same for wearing "burkini" swimwear.
https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2024/07/france-hijab-bans-olympic-and-paralympic/#:~:text=In%20France%2C%20the%20prohibition%20on,both%20professional%20and%20amateur%20levels.

Google translate probably misses a lot of the proper translation (tone, nuance etc).

Can you post the original here for those who speak the language?

How can they stop people from wearing whatever swimwear they want?

What if you had been badly burned and didn’t want to show your scars, but still wanted to swim- would they ask you to leave a pool?

Thats bonkers.

mothsandgoths · 13/08/2024 18:16

User6874356 · 13/08/2024 15:59

This is a bit judgy- maybe he has just misunderstood you. Either way as it’s not an issue I don’t see why you’re panicking. Just go enjoy your holiday

Yes it sounds to me like a misunderstanding
For example it's a shared pool but maybe a Muslim family booked and didn't want to share so the owner is checking if that what's you meant.

babyproblems · 13/08/2024 18:15

@itstheendoftheworldasweknowitnow having read your update with the original message you’ve received he’s not being rude - he’s been quite matter of fact enquiring why it would bother you to share the pool. If I was going to translate for you (I speak fluent french) in a ‘British’ friendly way I would say the message says the following:

Can you let us know if the sharing of the pool bothers you? We recently refused a rental because the lady and her daughters were veiled - wondering if you are Muslim and is this the issue? (Meaning you wouldn’t want to share the pool with them because you would t be comfortable as you might be Muslim?)
We wouldn’t want you to travel for no reason if this is the case as we have had to refuse some guests due to showing signs of religion (which is an infringement) and our neighbours have issue with it.
cheers! (Cordialement)

(possible they don’t care but neighbours have contacted the police for example!!!)

im not saying they’re not racist but I wouldn’t freak out to the nth degree based on the message. Hope that helps!!

viques · 13/08/2024 18:15

Enjoy the holiday and the pool, just make sure that on everyone’s last swim before you leave you all pee in the precious pool water. 🙂

FastFood · 13/08/2024 18:15

HauntedbyMagpies · 13/08/2024 18:04

Is it true that the majority of French people hate disabled people? This is a genuine question as I was a planning a trip there but I read somewhere that they're openly hateful towards anyone disabled and intolerant of children with Autism

That's bonkers.
Less equipments, issues with accessibility, surely. But being openly hateful is a step too far.

You guys really seem to dislike France and should maybe go to another country for your holiday.

Blondiebeachbabe · 13/08/2024 18:14

What a load of drama over nothing. You don't fit into the demographic they aren't comfortable with, so no drama, just enjoy your holiday.

babyproblems · 13/08/2024 18:08

HauntedbyMagpies · 13/08/2024 18:04

Is it true that the majority of French people hate disabled people? This is a genuine question as I was a planning a trip there but I read somewhere that they're openly hateful towards anyone disabled and intolerant of children with Autism

@HauntedbyMagpies I would say that’s really not true and quite laughable… what is true is that you do find crap access for disabilities at tourist places etc. So worth checking before you visit anywhere if accessibility is an issue. Also that it’s less ‘24/ 7’ than the uk so if you need food or meals at different times that is not always possible depending on where you are. Obviously the south and countryside areas are much sleepier than the north / big towns and cities. I think french people have less experience with diversity as a general rule and therefore are just really not well equipped to deal with situations where differences arise. I doubt very much you would experience any sort of intolerance in the street for example or anything like that!! Which I expect you might if you were Muslim as per my previous post..

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 13/08/2024 18:08

itstheendoftheworldasweknowitnow · 13/08/2024 15:55

This is the original:
Pourriez-vous me dire si le partage de la piscine avec nous qui occupons le rez-de-chaussée vous importune et pour quelle raison?
Récemment nous avons refusé la location car l'épouse et les deux jeunes filles étaient voilées; êtes-vous anglaise ou musulmane?
Nous ne souhaitons pas que vous effectuiez le déplacement et vous voir voir refuser l'accès à notre propriété pour des raisons d'affichage de convictions religieuses très mal ressenties par le voisinage.
Cordialement

Basically, France has a massive problem with burkhas. This isn't a new thing, I remember the veil debate was already raging when I did my French A-level 20 years ago.

Women aren't allowed to wear the burkha in public or swim at public swimming pools or on beaches in a burkhini.

I imagine that some Muslim families seek out holiday accommodation with private pools for this reason - so that they can swim in swimwear which is banned in public. But this property owner doesn't want his guests doing stuff which is banned in public on his private property because it is likely to cause tension with his neighbours.

It is what it is. If you have a problem with the owner of private holiday accommodation wanting to enforce the same rules that apply to swimming in public places (which were made by elected politicians) on their own property, I would suggest that France as a whole might be problematic for you, rather than this person in particular.