To think this is fucking crazy

It's a policy mostly enforced in municipal swimming pool - it's not pro speedos per se, it's anti-shorts, that can be worn all day as regular shorts and carry a lot of dirt (which would trigger a chemical reaction to chlorine, create fumes and be uncomfortable for everyone) whereas no one will walk in the streets with speedos or trunks (which are generally totally accepted as well by the way).

I also suspect that they want to avoid "barboteurs" in favour of sporty swimmers who are generally more loyal customers, spend less time in the pool and are just more disciplined (in the case of municipal swimming pools)

Municipal swimming pools are pretty cheap in France, and generally really clean, but it comes with a bit of a sacrifice on style and facilities, that can be very basic, don't expect nice shower gel or fancy hairdryer)

That private hotel swimming pools apply the same policy is probably down to laziness so they don't have to come up with their own set of policy.

The rule has nothing to do with how good men look in Speedos. It's for hygiene reasons. They don't want men to wear the same shorts they might have been wearing round town all week in the swimming pool, so they make them wear something they would never wear unless they were going swimming.

The thing is, if wearing a burkhini is banned at all municipal swimming pools and public beaches in France, I can't see how the owner of a holiday home is going to be breaking the law if he wants to have the same rule on his private property.

I have hugely mixed feelings about the burkha ban, personally speaking. I think burkhas are awful, repressive garments and the wearing of them should not be encouraged in modern western societies. But banning women from wearing them isn't going to mean those women go out wearing jeans and T-shirts. It will just stop them from going out at all.

My own feelings are irrelevant to the fact that the wearing of burkhas or burkhinis is not permitted in public places or in many private places in France.

If you have a problem with that, you don't need to avoid this particular gite. You need to avoid France.

You could decide to take your custom elsewhere on principle, but if that "elsewhere" is still in France you are still putting money into the economy of a country where attitudes analogous to that of this gite owner are enshrined in law.

So don't go to France. I wouldn't go to Iran, even though I'm sure there are plenty of amazing things to see there.

What a kind sentence. . Do you think fat women shouldn’t wear swimsuits either?

I've never understood the thinking behind this rule. Fat men in speedos look gross.

I’d like to see such a case go to court.
The owner would have excellent odds to win quickly.

Thanks @Scirocco.

I do believe in resilience.

One could argue that it's simply that - in my circle - people who I agree with on some matters, have very different views about a political matter. But this spills over all too often/too easily into some very stereotypical attitudes. So I find myself gravitating a bit more to people from my own background, because it seems to me that they have a better understanding and it feels a bit safer. I don't only want to hang out with people who agree with me. (But that doesn't mean I want to spend my entire time having fruitless arguments!)

@AnnaSewell I'm sorry that you're going through this sort of prejudice too.

I think it is quite hard for individuals to challenge race/religion-based injustice in a way that effects positive change. It needs careful thought and is usually best done by some form of collective action..

I am from a group that is subjected to discrimination and slurs. The amount of discrimination varies from time to time, but it's on the rise currently. It's not particularly fashionable to defend my group at present, and many people actually signal their virtuousness by repeating the slurs against my group.

I tend to think it is only by getting to know individuals and making relationships with them that you can create better mutual understanding, in the longer term. But for the purists this looks too much like compromise.

In terms of France, I'm currently watching the series Un Village Francais. You can stream it free on Rakuten TV.

It's absolutely brilliant in terms of how hard it is to make choices and or effect change in Occupied France. It shows how compromised we all are.

« Islam says if we see injustice, we should try to challenge it with our actions; if we can't, then we should try to challenge it with words; and if we can't, then we should challenge it in our hearts.«

Wisdom indeed!

in a way what shocks me most about the first message is ‘English or Muslim?’ - millions are BOTH.

This.

It hasn’t worked out well for the UK and French people don’t want to lose their identity.

If you feel strongly about it OP don’t go but I think money will matter more than your convictions.

Personally I have not returned to a pool where other people were wearing burkas and full dress.

Totally agree

This was my initial assumption too.

Wow, embarrassed for you actually. On this of all threads you think that’s a valid point?
Don't you like it when racist business owners are publicly shamed?

I suspect most people from the UK don't understand this. They imagine French villages as being rather like English ones - not so, the political set-up is quite different. It's one reason I am not keen on visiting France.

Well, the logical thing is to forward the contents of the letter - plus a careful translation - to the legal department of Booking.com, asking whether or not they are putting themselves whether or not, they're putting themselves in a difficult position by advertising this property.

It actually seems pretty complicated, in terms of how much leeway someone who rents out a holiday property in France has to decide who he rents to. (Do they have the freedom to make a personal decision about who will be a good fit? Can they operate on the basis that some lettings have proved difficult in the past - ie. something like a 'no stag parties clause. Does the information about the use of the swimming pool need to be worded with additional clarity?)

And do UK laws about discrimination 'override' French laws, when a letting is advertised in the UK.

Getting all this sorted out might actually be a lot more useful then planning to leave a 'The landlord is vile' review about a property you've not actually visited

Absolutely. Everyone knows the essential checklist of questions to ask AirBNB owners is:

1. Do you have WiFi?
2. Does the TV have English channels, and
3. Are you a racist twat

Only in public pools though, you can let it all hang out in shorts in your private villa pool.

Those poor rats. Given the personal hygiene of some men, vivisection might be preferable.

If the gite owner is living in a particularly, let’s say, awkward commune then I doubt he gives a stuff about the law in England, Scotland and Wales…

I’ll reiterate a point I made a while back, if you have never lived in a French village you can’t begin to imagine how sensitive local politics can be and just how much influence the mayor can have.

The gite owner might be a card carrying member of one of the more liberal parties but if the mayor is RN then if the gite owner want’s to stay in business he is going to tread very carefully.

I know it’s not “right” from a UK POV but that can be the real politik.

This has been troubling me... I can understand men getting circumised for medical reasons, but scientific?

I had assumed that scientists were endeavouring to resolve problems with climate change and rising sea levels, but it seems, from what you say, that some of them are just mucking about with their foreskins.😳

"Oh look! Barry has made a sleeveless, rollneck sweater for one of the lab rats." 🐀

If you advertise your services on a website based in England, Wales, or Scotland, you follow their law. Presumably OP and family have arrived there now and can enjoy their holiday.

If I go to a country I follow their law. Did you mention the hijab at all?

It's discrimination to refuse on the basis of a protected characteristic (these also exist in France but using the English terminology for reading convenience here). Religion is one such characteristic. In this case, the man has indicated that he has refused on the basis of religion before and would do so again. That's very different from saying "The pool is shared and that's non-negotiable".

It is illegal if you are renting your property through a company operating in the UK if it’s based on a protected characteristic, and the host has already agreed to take the booking (with the money).