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To think this is fucking crazy

436 replies

itstheendoftheworldasweknowitnow · 13/08/2024 15:46

We’re en route to a holiday rental in France. I wasn’t sure if the pool was shared or not between other guests so emailed the owner to ask. This is his reply - which I put in to google translate
Could you tell me if sharing the swimming pool with us who occupy the ground floor bothers you and for what reason? Recently we refused the rental because the wife and the two young daughters were veiled; are you english or muslim? We do not want you to make the trip and see yourself refused access to our property for reasons of displaying religious beliefs which are very resented by the neighborhood.

Fuck Fuck Fuck
What the hell do I do?
I am not a Muslim.
I am also not a racist.

OP posts:
HauntedbyMagpies · 13/08/2024 18:07

@babyproblems No it's not illegal to wear a Hijab in France, but it is illegal to wear a Burka

Inyournewdress · 13/08/2024 18:07

The thing is if OP doesn’t go now, she won’t be taking a stand against racism so much as letting this guy keep her money while enjoying the place to himself. I don’t think that will feel like someone taking a stand against him.

It might be different it is was possible to recoup the money by showing his message to booking but I am not sure if that would work because although he is showing that he does refuse on grounds of religion, he hasn’t actually refused OP’s booking on those grounds.

It’s an incredibly infuriating and rude message, would really spoil things for me. I would be tempted to reply saying that you are struggling with the French and it sounds like he is saying someone was turned away on grounds of religion, but since that is illegal…have you misunderstood? See what he replies.

Ryeman · 13/08/2024 18:04

You should reply “We’re English and Muslim” and see if his head explodes. Enjoy your holiday!

babyproblems · 13/08/2024 18:04

It is illegal to wear a hijab - his views are not uncommon. Possible you’ve hit a nerve and he’s had issues with people complaining about sharing the pool or issues with guests and neighbours. I would just be polite and enjoy your holiday.. I’d probably not leave excellent feedback though. Racism and discrimination (particularly towards Muslims) in France is absolutely rife. I’m saying that having lived here for a long time… we’ve moved around France over the years to different regions and there hasn’t been one place I haven’t witnessed discrimination to be honest. It is shocking to brits yes. It’s one aspect of french culture that is really really behind the times. Also sexism still very much alive and kicking here- discrimination at work etc also rife in my experience. The recent election debacle goes to show what people here really think/feel imo. It was pulled back from the brink but make no mistake people hold very racist views.

HauntedbyMagpies · 13/08/2024 18:04

Is it true that the majority of French people hate disabled people? This is a genuine question as I was a planning a trip there but I read somewhere that they're openly hateful towards anyone disabled and intolerant of children with Autism

Fluffyelephant · 13/08/2024 18:03

AngelusBell · 13/08/2024 17:58

I would, and if refused entry I would call Booking.com and get a refund immediately.

You would take your non-white and/or muslim children to stay at the home of someone you knew was racist and make them share a communal space with them for the week?

Knowing they were likely to make racist / anti-muslim comments casually in front of your child, asking them if they were English or Muslim? etc..

BigWillyLittleTodger · 13/08/2024 18:03

GiddyNavyJoker · 13/08/2024 17:53

I'm not saying its right, but the sad truth is many people in the country can't afford to not look the other way.

I doubt anyone in the country agrees with child labour, but many will still go out and buy samsungs and iPhones or cheap clothes from primark etc that have a history of exploiting child labour.

People can virtue signal all they want until it actually affects them.

Edited

I understand that, though when you purchase a iPhone it doesn’t have a label on it saying ‘produced by child labour’ on it, most people don’t think of that when they are buying the latest gadget, even though we all should, it’s very much out of sight out of mind, however the OP has been directly informed of the owners racist views of which the OP abhors, it’s the handwringing and posting on Mumsnet about how awful it is but goes ahead anyway, as if the virtue signalling on here absolves her somehow.

AelitaQueenofMars · 13/08/2024 18:03

Technonan · 13/08/2024 16:00

There are some strict laws on secularity in France, and conspicuous religious dress is not popular. It's banned in schools and the civil service. France is home to one of the largest Muslim and Jewish populations in Europe and they've had some serious problems with extremism from Muslim groups (probably triggered by Israels invasion of Gaza).

You could reply and say you do not wear religious dress of any kind, but you have no issues with people who do. Or you could decide that the attitude of the landlord )and the area) make it impossible for you to stay there. It really has to be up to you.

they've had some serious problems with extremism from Muslim groups (probably triggered by Israels invasion of Gaza).

Sorry, what? Are you seriously saying the Jews are to blame for religious extremism? On a thread about racist attitudes?

Getonwitit · 13/08/2024 18:03

Technonan · 13/08/2024 16:00

There are some strict laws on secularity in France, and conspicuous religious dress is not popular. It's banned in schools and the civil service. France is home to one of the largest Muslim and Jewish populations in Europe and they've had some serious problems with extremism from Muslim groups (probably triggered by Israels invasion of Gaza).

You could reply and say you do not wear religious dress of any kind, but you have no issues with people who do. Or you could decide that the attitude of the landlord )and the area) make it impossible for you to stay there. It really has to be up to you.

France had serious problems with extremism from Muslim groups way before the atrocities carried out by Hamas in October 2023.

Fluffyelephant · 13/08/2024 18:00

Don't know whether it's funny or depressing the number of people on here who are oblivious to the racism and think the OP's dilemma is about the sharing of the pool...

"It's a shame you didn't ask about the pool earlier but not to worry I'm sure you'll still have a good trip!"

AngelusBell · 13/08/2024 17:58

Fluffyelephant · 13/08/2024 17:46

Exactly. If one of the children was muslim or a person of colour you wouldn't still be going in order to avoid disappointing them.

I would, and if refused entry I would call Booking.com and get a refund immediately.

Miyagi99 · 13/08/2024 17:56

YesThatsATurdOnTheRug · 13/08/2024 15:55

Ask what?! Excuse me are you racist?

About the pool!

AngelusBell · 13/08/2024 17:55

VisitationRights · 13/08/2024 17:51

The hypocrisy of going but then planning to report them. Either stand by your principles and cancel, asking booking for your money and the reason why or go and forget it.

Yes, they could do that and use the immediate refund from Booking.com to book somewhere else with a pool, checking for racist views before booking the new place. It depends how near to the destination they are.

SKG2007 · 13/08/2024 17:55

sorry, I'm very slow. I can read that they would like to know why you would find it annoying that they share the pool with you. The part about being muslim; may he mean that muslim women would not feel comfortable sharing a pool with men?

GiddyNavyJoker · 13/08/2024 17:53

BigWillyLittleTodger · 13/08/2024 17:44

Surely though the OP should be leading by example, sorry kids holiday is off because the owner is a racist otherwise you are just teaching children to look the other way, OP either live by your principals or you are a hypocrite, don’t use your children as a convenient excuse.

I'm not saying its right, but the sad truth is many people in the country can't afford to not look the other way.

I doubt anyone in the country agrees with child labour, but many will still go out and buy samsungs and iPhones or cheap clothes from primark etc that have a history of exploiting child labour.

People can virtue signal all they want until it actually affects them.

Allie47 · 13/08/2024 17:53

MarkWithaC · 13/08/2024 17:47

It's been done, a few times.

Sorry, there's 8 pages and I lost interest 💐

SKG2007 · 13/08/2024 17:52

France is a secular state; their attitude to religion/religious displays is vastly different. Also, if you post the original message, maybe I or other native french can explain to you how it is meant

VisitationRights · 13/08/2024 17:51

The hypocrisy of going but then planning to report them. Either stand by your principles and cancel, asking booking for your money and the reason why or go and forget it.

BrieHugger · 13/08/2024 17:51

It doesn’t sound like the owner is outright banning Muslims, he is banning full face coverings like everywhere else in France because of the law. He also wants his family to be able to use their pool whenever they want, without either party feeling uncomfortable. He has obviously had a tricky situation previously.

If you want to test whether he is racist or not, I would try donning a balaclava in the pool, see what transpires.

CasaBianca · 13/08/2024 17:50

itstheendoftheworldasweknowitnow · 13/08/2024 15:55

This is the original:
Pourriez-vous me dire si le partage de la piscine avec nous qui occupons le rez-de-chaussée vous importune et pour quelle raison?
Récemment nous avons refusé la location car l'épouse et les deux jeunes filles étaient voilées; êtes-vous anglaise ou musulmane?
Nous ne souhaitons pas que vous effectuiez le déplacement et vous voir voir refuser l'accès à notre propriété pour des raisons d'affichage de convictions religieuses très mal ressenties par le voisinage.
Cordialement

I’m French, the tone of the message is polite - the q about ‘english or muslim’ is not ok though. In France people aren’t allowed religious signs in public places (not just Muslim, any religion) just to give you the context. Reading between the lines, he might have an issue in the past with people using the pool fully clothed or complaining about the owners being able to see/access tje pool area and women not being able to able to use it because of that.
Personally, and keeping in mind you want the holiday to happen, I would explain that you were asking out of interest and that you don’t have any religious constraint around it (of not the case ofc)

autienotnaughty · 13/08/2024 17:50

I'd go, enjoy the holiday and report after. The poor family that got turned away for being religious.

Tiredalwaystired · 13/08/2024 17:48

BargingOnBy · 13/08/2024 15:54

This. No need to pretend to be woke about it.

Define what you mean by “woke”.

MarkWithaC · 13/08/2024 17:47

Allie47 · 13/08/2024 17:46

OP could you post the reply in French, there must be speakers on here who could check the Google translation, it may well not have been intended as it came across.

It's been done, a few times.

Fluffyelephant · 13/08/2024 17:46

BigWillyLittleTodger · 13/08/2024 17:44

Surely though the OP should be leading by example, sorry kids holiday is off because the owner is a racist otherwise you are just teaching children to look the other way, OP either live by your principals or you are a hypocrite, don’t use your children as a convenient excuse.

Exactly. If one of the children was muslim or a person of colour you wouldn't still be going in order to avoid disappointing them.

Allie47 · 13/08/2024 17:46

speckledfroglet · 13/08/2024 16:24

I speak fluent French and this is definitely racist and quite shocking, particularly the last bit about the neighbourhood being against people with certain ‘religious convictions’ Whereabouts are you going OP ? Where I live there is a large Arabic population and the women wear hijabs, there is no issue. Full-face covers, such as the burka, are banned everywhere in France, however .

OP could you post the reply in French, there must be speakers on here who could check the Google translation, it may well not have been intended as it came across.

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