To think my sister shouldn't support my bullying SIL?

You need to take her to the side , don't let anyone see and whisper in her ear to feck off. You're sick of her playing games and to leave you alone! Please stand up for yourself. And stay strong
Then avoid her at all costs.

You are not being unreasonable if that was Terri's intention, but obviously Susan knows Terri is your sister and it could have been Terri's way of annoying Susan. Like you can keep being vile but we will still be nice because we haven't done anything wrong. The words she used seem ott for someone she barely knows, I read it sarcastically in support of you. I could be wrong

@HurtingSister - What you've done (if you've done it as you described in your OP) with this sister is try to explain your situation to her with a hope that she will see your side of things and accept them and be your best buddy or even less of an arse towards you as a result.

Unfortunately that isn't going to happen so when @JumpingAtShadows1 suggests you stand up for yourself, this means treating her open hostility not with kindness, but indifference. If she doesn't get a reaction out of you, then it'll really piss her off more so than you sending her a bunch of flowers. I mean really, who sends flowers to someone who is treating them like shit??

You should go to an assertiveness class so that you can understand when you're standing up for yourself and when you're not. You & your husband need therapy to deal with the terrible hands you've been dealt when it comes to families but in the meantime, I'd significantly reduce communications with Terri and stop looking for approval from your SiL, as it probably looks like desperation from her position.

Your husband should be standing up for you to his horrible sister! You are his top priority. Your sister sounds like she is being overly lovely to this awful woman just to be mean to you. Withdraw from both of them. No one needs this crap from their inlaws and no one has to take it. Stop trying to curry favour with them both.

This broke my heart a little... I can relate to this and in the past I've tried everything to get people to like me and stick around... its exhausting! You sound absolutely lovely! Please stop trying to "win" ger friendship... some people just don't think like us. It makes you so very vulnerable!
Hold your ground...but stop trying to get her to like you. You sound too nice for shitty people like that in your life!
Be civil... but do your own thing.... I can guarantee that will rock her... atm she's got all of the control. Take it back... you absolutely don't need to be her friend or need validation by her liking you.
Good luck with it all! Remember your worth 🥰

You tried being nice to your SIL. You tried apologising (which was a ridiculous thing to do). There are only two other options to deal with the bitch. Either you stand up to her or you have nothing further to do with her. It doesn’t sound like you’re strong enough to do either at the moment, but with the help of a new. properly qualified BACP therapist you would be able to cut her and your sister off. Your children won’t miss out from you not seeing your SIL or Terri and will benefit from having a mother that isn’t being bullied.

Has your husband ever had therapy? He needs counselling too.

Why on earth did your counsellor advise you to write a letter apologising to your SIL…?

@HurtingSister kindly, you say you have tried to talk to SIL but why are you apologising and asking her to draw a line under it? That’s like admitting you’re at fault. She is a manipulative bully and she and Terri are the same time. Telling Terri was an error but too late to undo. Just don’t tolerate their bullshit. Don’t contact them. If either is rude to them stand up for yourself! Don’t enable their bad behaviour. You don’t have to row or be rude - you can say “no thank you, that doesn’t work for me” or “I don’t reply to rude requests” and so on. Draw your own line of standards and don’t get drawn in to their silliness.

Don't waste your tine on these horrid self centred idiots, infact at the next family doo she makes another comment say out loud in front of everyone do not dare ever speak to me in this way you've done it time and time over and I'm not standing for it anymore trll her also to put a sock in it and if she doesn't like it then don't float about where your presence us required.... your worth 100 of those 2 ten times over, they must have so e serious self esteem and feel threatened by your beautiful image and personality which blows them out the water 💧 love who you are and give 2 fuks about anyone who looks and talks to you in this way xxx feel free to end me a message if you need an ear xx

sounds awful bless you i had had nothing at all from my husband's family my 50th the other week not even a happy birthday when they turned up at my house the next day not even a card they mock me all the time i understand not getting on with family they are in there own little world it is not worth destroying your own sanity with that you can only be yourself do not argue with them my mother in law now has dementia life is cruel

OP - they are horrible people, with their own issues. That's not your fault.

But as others say, you need to work on yourself to be less apologetic and more assertive. The bit that really sticks out to me is sending flowers to someone who is being horrible to you. Please please don't do that. Flowers are for thanking someone for being wonderful to you. Or apologising when you have been horrid. You were already being nice. And you were getting bullied. Sending flowers is utterly inappropriate.

At the moment, you are getting upset with the wrong people. You are literally angry with your sister for being nice to your bully, when you yourself have sent your bully flowers and apologetic letters. You are also angry at your husband for not standing up for you, while you are not standing up for you.

It is really really hard, and I say this with sympathy, because I have also been a massive over pleaser. I am better now but keep needing to work on this and catch myself.

I'd say that's a huge piece of work you need to do on you. Your husband probably needs to do the same in parallel. (People calling him a loser is cruel, but it does sound like you have hooked up with someone who is equally non-confrontational as you. This is much better than the alternative which frequently happens, of hooking up with someone who is similar to your abusive family members, so well done for that). But you both need to grow beyond your childhood roles now.

You have already progressed - distancing from your own family... and it can be a painful journey, often losing more people in your life as you change- but these changes will be for the better as you reinvent yourself and you will forge other relationships with non toxic people who treat you well... and when they don't, you will not tolerate it.

If you feel like you have to see her to keep up family contact just put your big pants on and call her bullying out in front of others when she does it. Hopefully she'll be embarrassed enough to stop. If not just don't go to anywhere she is and tell your husband he can either back you up when you stand up for yourself if he can see her alone.

Have you spoke to MIL or FIL about how you feel?

As for Terri just cut her off. She knew what she was doing and did it deliberately to hurt you. Why put up with it. Block and unfriend.

That counsellor was so wrong. She has exposed you to more bullying.
Find another counsellor who can support you with building boundaries and keeping yourself safe from bullies.

I would go no contact. It’s easier said than done.
I went no contact with an abusive addict in my family and was put under enormous pressure to ‘make up’ by other family members.

This is where you need a good counsellor not some holy-Mary who wants you to apologise to your abuser for making them abuse you!!! 🙄

It worked out for me in the end.

Best wishes and take care of yourself. You don’t deserve any of this.

Op I think you went running after and seeking approval to be liked by SIL because of being rejected by your own family. She is so awful to you that you shouldn't even give her a second of yourself. Why do you want to be accepted by her so much.

Terri is a product of the upbringing. You can hardly expect any reasonable relationship from someone who was brought up by people who you are NC with. The dynamic is toxic and your therapist should have pointed that out to you. Seems like you need to go NC with Terri too. Don't hang on to hopes of a relationship with her just because she is the only one out of your family who seems the least toxic.

As for your Dh, seems like he also had a very dysfunctional upbringing and seeking his sister's approval in his own way that's reflected on you. You have control here even if you think you don't. Stop attending family functions, why do you need to? To please your dh, to please your IL? When do you do anything to please yourself?

Is your SIL married? Who is telling you she is talking behind your back?

I think the letter from the counsellor was a wrong idea. I think a letter only works if you have actually done something wrong. You were effectively grovelling and apologising for nothing. YOU must draw a line underneath it now, dont worry about your SIL. What is that saying, she is living in your head, rent free . Don't contact her again, stop trying to make conversation, you can easily ignore her in group family events. Any snarky comment, do an eye roll and an intake of breath as one would to a tiresome child.

As for your sister, personally, l think she posted that birthday wish to hurt you. You confided in her, why make such a public declaration? She could have messaged SIL privately. Perhaps she was trying to niggle you because she feels the pressure of you being non contact with your parents and sister - who knows.

I am not suggesting going non contact with your sister but definitely be more guarded. Do not talk to your sister about your SIL under any circumstances. Don't even tell her you are ignoring SIL from now on. Don't hand her a stick to beat you with.

Get a new counsellor.

Good luck OP

Toxic people in your family are the same as toxic people outside of your family. Sharing a gene pool doesn't give them power over you.
Look to your own behaviour. If you know that you have not caused any issues and others are treating you badly then you have a responsibility to yourself to rid yourself of the toxicity. You can't have a relationship with someone who doesn't value you, it's hard work, demoralising and pointless.
Stop sending messages and flowers, stop being a passive enabler of someone else's bad behaviour. Value yourself, because until you do, no-one else will!

Seriously you need to stop what you’re doing. You’re kissing the SIL arse and are so far up it that you’re just making her behaviour worse. Why the hell do you need to apologise? You dont need her approval. She is a bitch twat. Ignore her from now on. Delete her from social media. Get your dh to tell her to fuxk off. As for your sister, she doesn’t like you so why confide in her as she’s just proved, probably not for the first time, that she’s a bitch too. Seriously, you’re making yourself look a right knob. Be more assertive and get a new therapist. Why wasted time and energy on these people. You can’t reason with stupid people. Grow a spine.

Don’t for fuck sake write letters of apology that can be shown over and over again to others.

The counselling you’ve had sound’s shit.

Your sister is doing “my enemy’s enemy is my friend”.

Picture in your mind what sad pathetic individuals they are and then ignore them - don’t go to social meet-ups, don’t reply to messages (or give bland non-committal responses) don’t give them flowers or gifts to make them like you. Remember the opposite of love is indifference, just put them at the back of your mind and ignore them as much as you can.

with the help of my counsellor, wrote her a letter and apologised if I was doing anything that might be upsetting her unbeknownst to myself and asked her if we could draw a line in the sand and move on together as a united family. Again, ignored

you’ve got a counsellor problem too. You can’t change other people, only your response to them. Writing letters like this plays into her hands. It would be far more helpful to accept these two women are bad news and work on strategies to help you deal with them and what your boundary is for what is acceptable behaviour. You’ve done nothing wrong and I agree with everyone here who is saying cut them off or if you must be in the same room then grey rock. You have to defend yourself but your DH should be defending you too, his lack of spine has allowed his sister to bully you and if he can’t stand up to her then he should remove himself from her orbit too.

The issue was the bullshit advice of your counsellor. You challenge her, if not laugh in her face. You are dealing with two very damaged people, there is no sense or reasoning. You bring it to a head or you don't be in her company. You tell your DH that you will no longer be abused by her and especially not in front of your children. Stop behaving as though there isn't any issues. Block them on SM and if asked tell them straight, you don't want their negativity, they don't like you and you won't play their games.

Get a different counsellor, your one sounds crap.

Why make all that effort grovelling to someone just in case you had done something that upset them?

It would have been more effective to work on having nothing to do with your SIL and being able to say 'oh fuck off' if you did have to spend time with her and she started on you.

Your counsellor seems to have encouraged your childhood training to make yourself the world's biggest doormat.

I'm surprised your counsellor advised that letter. Is it a qualified counsellor?

The only way to deal with a bully is to stand up to them. I wouldn't bother in this case, just remove this woman from your life. Your useless DH can join you or GTF.

I'd stop going to family events if someone was very hostile towards me, and my husband didn't have my back. Your husband is the problem here. I'd stop being nice to sil, because it's not working at all. She hates you, it doesn't matter why because you've done nothing wrong. Avoid her and ignore her if you see her. Don't send birthday cards/gifts, act like she doesn't exist.