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Neighbours Autistic daughter

361 replies

Ashellwithin · 12/08/2024 21:05

Good evening all,

I was recommended to seek advice on this forum by a friend. If anyone could advise, I would be very much appreciative.

I have been living in my flat for the past 12 years. During the first few years, we have had to deal with my neighbour's daughter horrific meltdowns (e.g., jumping on the floor, crying). She was 4 or 5 years old at the time and although I did complain to our Local Housing officer about this, I didn't take this any further as she was quite young and did not think it would be taken seriously. Plus, the meltdowns seemed to had settled during the years.

However, now that my neighbour's daughter is a teen, the meltdowns have started all over again and they are much worse. She will curse, shout, bang, throw things, slams doors, runs up and down. She is very loud! On those days where it has gotten too much, I have regrettably shouted to "Keep the noise down!", on a few occasions. But the noise was really grating me.

The neighbour (mum) struggles to calm down her daughter and often takes her out of the house for long periods of duration or I will see them both wandering in the streets (around midnight!). I have also seen quite a few professionals (I'm assuming as they have lanyards) come in and out of her flat which I take is to support the neighbour's daughter. So I do think the neighbour is trying to support her daughter the best way she can. However, the noise is unbearable and I can no longer take it. I have made a formal complaint to the council about the noise and have recorded the daughter's meltdowns as evidence.

Since then, a mediation meeting between the neighbour and I to resolve the matter. The meeting has not taken place yet as the neighbour always has something going on Hmm (so wondering if she is avoiding this). But I'm hoping to move to a new property or secretly wishing that they will kick out the neighbours and move them elsewhere.

Other than that, what else can I do? This is taken a toll on my mental health.

OP posts:
Jimmyneutronsforehead · 13/08/2024 00:09

BettyBardMacDonald · 12/08/2024 23:57

I'm not advocating, I was asking a sincere and civil question and got your insults in return. Thanks.

Having taken diazepam in the past, I don't think it's the devil's potion; it can be quite fast-acting and effective in calming an individual. No one suggests it should be adminstered often enough to cause an addiction.

What is your suggestion?

It's unethical to prescribe to minors as it genuinely is one of the only medications that can kill when used improperly.

There isn't just a physical dependence but there's a psychological dependence too.

I know long term users of benzos who were prescribed them for acute anxiety years ago and now have to be routinely prescribed them as drug and alcohol services don't really have the capacity to help wean them off and they may never be able to stop taking it.

They require a low daily dose to feel normal and when they're withdrawing they become extremely emotionally dysregulated but the substance is controlled and therefore they cannot always have access to it.

There's also a black market for benzos. You can buy it on the street like other drugs, and so it's got the capacity for abuse.

Children can't consent to all of these side effects and although most carers would not knowingly use these drugs to abuse or subdue their children the potential to be misused for the benefit of others and not for the benefit of the autistic individual is extremely high. It is essentially drugging children to make the lives of others more tolerable. It's hugely unethical.

The fact of the matter is that there are less negative consequences to that individual to let a meltdown play out than to non-consensually administer drugs that you should be under no illusion would be misused even unintentionally.

The goal is to ensure our young people have the support and tools available to remain emotionally regulated and feel safe, but what teenager feels emotionally regulated and safe all of the time? None. It's part of the teenage experience. There are physiological changes that are happening beyond their control. The power of hormones should not be underestimated.

I could go on and on and explain how the amygdala is physically different in autistic individuals and how that impacts their ability to process emotions and why they experience trauma to things neurotypical people wouldn't find traumatic, and why they experience emotions so intensely but I don't think mumsnet is the place for it and there are many Ted talks on it already.

Itsjustmeheretoday · 13/08/2024 00:08

Youcantellalotofthingsabouttheflowers · 12/08/2024 23:38

Everyone deserves peace in their own home.yes it must be hell for the mother but to tell someone to put up and shut up while their own mental health is going down the Swanny because of a child who is not theirs is ridiculous. You were right to complain OP and I hope either one of you gets rehoused somewhere more suitable.

This 💯

sunights · 13/08/2024 00:03

JenniferBooth · 12/08/2024 22:56

What if that "nasty neighbour" was a paramedic/ junior doctor who needed sleep and then had to go into work on fuck all sleep and made a mistake while treating you or your child.

I've heard that the government hasn't been keeping doctors pay inline with inflation- but surely junior doctors can afford private rental?

And a paramedic I would expect to have the common sense to do a mutual exchange.

The fact is that social housing is needed for society's most vulnerable- people who would otherwise be evicted from privately rented- and if someone has the mental or physical means to move then they have more choice than someone who is disabled and probably already overcrowded with no other choice beyond an emergency housing bedsit hotel room or living in a tent in the streets.

Supersimkin7 · 13/08/2024 00:03

Institutions aren’t all horrible. Mrs Thatcher pushed that view because it was cheaper to shut the homes down & dump on the families.

(Tories today still say dementia care is ‘up to the family’ when family can’t cope.

They don’t say that about cancer - it’s mh discrimination at its nastiest.)

Many specialist residences still exist for the ND. Our local one is really, really good.

Judges and the legal system despair of the current lack of residential care, particularly secure care. Some people really need it for a while.

Thanks to the ‘asylums are bad’ view, a lot of people (inc children ) end up homeless or in prison, and the rest of us aren’t exactly better off either. 175 secure ND beds for the under-16s in the UK; 27,000 requests for a place.

A lot of serious ND comes with physical problems that give you lower life expectancy. Dementia kicks in early. But people with Down’s syndrome, in particular, are living much longer and so no new home places are available. Specialist foster placements exist.

That’s all I know, and it’s a bleak picture. The trouble with incurable diseases is the bill. And the misery of care.

BettyBardMacDonald · 12/08/2024 23:58

Newagestage · 12/08/2024 23:44

Just move,
You are in a much netter position to do so. Don't make the mothers life harder than it already is

And what about the next person in OP's flat?

surreygirl1987 · 12/08/2024 23:58

Moier · 12/08/2024 21:18

I'm gobsmacked.
I'm not sure what more you want the Mum to do.
What's mediation going to achieve? She can't gag her daughter .
I think you need to educate yourself on all aspects of ASD.
How do you think their mental health is?
If you can't tolerate it any more.
You MOVE !!!!
Rather than trying to get a disabled person evicted.

This. Put yourself in the mum's shoes. I know it's a rubbish situation and not fair, but what do you expect your complaint will achieve?! Other than potentially tipping the mother over the edge.

BettyBardMacDonald · 12/08/2024 23:57

Hoardasurass · 12/08/2024 23:10

No there isn't any medication and as for your truly offensive suggestion of drugging children or anyone with diazipam are you serious. As an autistic mother to an autistic child I can say that meltdowns are hellish from both sides but you know the one thing that would make them completely unbearable is being drugged during 1.
Please think about what you are advocating before posting such offensive bs next time

I'm not advocating, I was asking a sincere and civil question and got your insults in return. Thanks.

Having taken diazepam in the past, I don't think it's the devil's potion; it can be quite fast-acting and effective in calming an individual. No one suggests it should be adminstered often enough to cause an addiction.

What is your suggestion?

HashtagShitShop · 12/08/2024 23:48

There's no guarantee that if you did move or she did move that things would improve. You could get someone worse.

We own our house and next door owned theirs. We lived perfectly fine next door to each other for 23 years, then her husband died and she got a new boyfriend 6m later. He moved in and made our lives hell as he'd bang on the walls, shout stupid noises, boom his music into the early hours, get drunk and shout threats and they'd argue. When she threw him out he'd be away all of a week before he'd wheedle his way back in. Thankfully they moved after 2. 5 years of hell and we breathed a sigh of relief. A mother bought the house and moved in with her four kids. I almost wish dickhead was back here because these kids boom music until 3am and then another gets up early (at 10 to 5 as it was Saturday morning) and takes over and another does it all afternoon and often goes out into the garden at ear splitting volume. Wheb it's the daughter she often screams and shrieks into the night like she's being kidnapped and there's more often than not a friend staying over who does the same.

At least dickhead went to sleep on weeknights around 10 as he had to leave for work at half 6 most weeks. There's no stop from these lot and the mother keeps insisting she'll have a word but they ignore her. The council complaint is at listening stuff going in to catch "official evidence."

To be fair to the mother next to you, it does sound like she's doing as much as she can. I mean she's walking the streets for hours in the early hours of the morning.

I don't deny it's not soul destroying for you, I've been there and I'm living it now still. It makes you twitch and react and tense to the slightest noise and it makes you unwell.... But it'll also be doing the same to the mother and neither of them are doing it out of spite.

Have you tried noise cancelling headphones when she's at her worst? Ear plugs? White noise machines?. Do you try distract yourself or do you turn everything down and listen out for the noise twitching more and on edge waiting for the next one (been there. Need to stop doing it) I have to sleep in noise cancelling ear plugs often sadly.. Ironically they are so good that when I had to put them in on Saturday morning after one of the sons had woken me up 2 hours after the sister had stopped I slept through the fire alarm sounding just outside my room. Thankfully it was a false alarm and likely due to the humidity upstairs inside this time...! 🤦🏻‍♀️

Newagestage · 12/08/2024 23:44

Just move,
You are in a much netter position to do so. Don't make the mothers life harder than it already is

sunights · 12/08/2024 23:42

Supersimkin7 · 12/08/2024 21:34

How horrible for you. If the shrieking’s not the kid’s problem, it sure as hell ain’t yours.

‘She’s disabled’ isn’t an answer, and it certainly isn’t the right answer.

They can’t evict or control disabled neighbours, but they can sort out better flooring and soundproofing or move you. For now, headphones.

My parents had the same problem with neighbours who were into BDSM.

Social landlords cannot fund sound proofing see link to judgement for details https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld199899/ldjudgmt/jd991021/mills-2.htm

Demonhunter · 12/08/2024 23:40

What is your resolution in this? I can't seem to understand what you want to achieve. To have them evicted? She's walking her daughter, 2 lone females, at midnight to appease you and you want her to do what else?
I know it must be frustrating for you but maybe you need to move as you said housing officer so you're renting.

Youcantellalotofthingsabouttheflowers · 12/08/2024 23:38

Everyone deserves peace in their own home.yes it must be hell for the mother but to tell someone to put up and shut up while their own mental health is going down the Swanny because of a child who is not theirs is ridiculous. You were right to complain OP and I hope either one of you gets rehoused somewhere more suitable.

AstonUniversityPotholeDepartment · 12/08/2024 23:38

Monday 29 January 2024

A year ago today, a girl – then aged 12 – with severe emotional and behavioural difficulties was put into a locked hospital room under a court order for her own protection. For the past 12 months, most human contact has been through a hatch in the door of her room.

“Becky” is a victim of a UK-wide scarcity of regulated secure accommodation for children.

Just 128 welfare beds in 13 secure children’s homes in England are available to local authorities, which hold the statutory duty to care for and protect children who require this type of specialist therapeutic care.
A severe shortfall in supply means that family judges are regularly told that between 30 and 70-plus children in urgent need are chasing one or two places.

Many end up placed with unregulated private providers costing thousands of pounds per week, or, as in Becky’s case, find that no one is willing to take them.
For highly vulnerable and traumatised children who pose a risk to themselves and others, a placement in a secure therapeutic setting is their best – sometimes only – chance of healing and reintegration into society.
Tortoise has been following Becky’s plight since she was deprived of her liberty last January.

In a hearing last week, her court-appointed guardian told the country’s most senior family judge that she was “very worried” that the girl had been “warehoused” over the last year.
The girl’s incarceration, which began when she was aged 12, has, the guardian said, “danced on the boundary” of breaching her human right not to be arbitrarily detained.
Becky has attempted suicide on a number of occasions while locked away.
The seriousness of the failure to provide her with safe and therapeutic care was underscored last October when the case was transferred to Sir Andrew McFarlane, the president of the family division of the high court.
In a statement submitted last week, Becky’s guardian said the child’s experience over the past 12 months had been “appalling”. She continued: “Her every waking moment and interaction has been watched; her physical health and fitness has declined; her education, for a girl of some promise, has stuttered.”
In multiple hearings over the past 12 months, every state agency involved in Becky’s care has agreed that being locked up alone in a bare room is actively causing her harm. But: despite the risks to Becky’s life, no regulated secure children’s home has been willing to take her, and nor has any unregistered provider.
One private children’s home, Olive Tree Residential Childcare, initially agreed to provide a bespoke placement for Becky, but pulled out with a few days’ notice.

The judge described that decision as “a disaster”; on hearing the news Becky became distraught and seriously self-harmed.
Becky’s mother has repeatedly urged that her child should be allowed home with specialist staff on hand – but the family home is not believed to be suitable for the necessary support staff on site.

Since the autumn, Becky has been permitted very occasional home visits: her first, in September, caused Becky to “cry with happiness”, her mother said.
“She lay on her bed looking at her things, had her first bath in nine months… We made chicken dinner, listened to music, had a dance and watched War Horse together. We got back on transport and Becky walked into the [hospital] without any issues,” she said.

Further brief visits home have, according to Becky’s mother, gone well. She says Becky has had five social workers since 2022, with staff sickness meaning no social worker was allocated to her case for several months. Her current social worker only has Becky on her caseload due to the complexity of her case.

What’s more. After 51 weeks of searching for secure accommodation, Staffordshire council told the court last week that they now intend to create a bespoke placement of their own.
This will involve renting several properties exclusively for Becky and her family to live in, with five-to-one staffing on-site. At the same time, the council is renting and adapting a second fall-back property in case problems arise with the first.

The next hearing is on 16 February. If Becky has not moved by then, she will have been locked away from her family and society for 383 days, and counting.

Olive Tree Residential is a company set up in May 2021 and owned by Skippers Haulage, a trucking and aggregates business based on a farm in Staffordshire. One of Olive Tree’s company directors, Zia Zamir, says he was summarily removed as a director on 4 July 2023 for reasons he does not understand. Becky’s placement was cancelled by Olive Tree in a letter dated 11 July. Mr Zamir says “the placement should never have been pulled.”

A check on Companies House confirms that Olive Tree Residential Childcare still exists. Tortoise Media visited Skippers Haulage to ask for an interview but owner Ronald Skipper was unwilling to speak on the record for “legal reasons”.
Last week, Skipper’s wife told Tortoise that the company was no longer trading and all monies received from Staffordshire council for Becky’s placement have been repaid. Meanwhile, in the midst of suing Skippers Haulage in a dispute about his dismissal as director, Zia Zamir has set up another residential care company, Bayleaf Care Ltd, which intends to provide placements for children, its website says, “who have experienced severe trauma”.

Bayleaf Care is currently going through the registration process with Ofsted.

Children locked away: Britain's modern bedlam - Tortoise

A new Tortoise investigation into how the country’s most distressed and vulnerable children are being abandoned by the state.

https://www.tortoisemedia.com/audio/children-locked-away-britains-modern-bedlam/

Frazzled83 · 12/08/2024 23:32

EveSix · 12/08/2024 22:30

I'm a bit teary at some of the responses here, being so understanding of the OP's neighbour and the level of stress she is likely under, trying to manage her daughter's meltdowns. It's such a relief to know that there are people who get it, and who see the crazy lengths which parents of children with needs like the OP's neighbour's daughter will go to to keep the peace and regulate their DC. To many of us, it's just the water in which we swim, day in and day out, relentlessly ‐frequently judged, ducking and diving and jumping through all manner of hoops just to put one foot in front of the other with our DC. Exhausting.
And as a PP said, it can be simultaneously true that it is also really exhausting for the OP, and that the situation is increasingly untenable.
I very much hope you manage to reach a mutually workable solution.

Oh we see you and you are phenomenal. I wish the system supported you better. I’m a tiny cog in the wheel of support services and the situation is dire. I’m sorry 😔

GlomOfNit · 12/08/2024 23:30

Wow.

I know it's a PITA actually, because that's MY child you're complaining about (my son, in fact). Move, it'll be far easier for you to move away since your routine won't be disrupted, you can cope with less familiar surroundings and the upheaval won't be as cataclysmic as it would be for that poor family.

Please do understand that we do everything we can to make it easier for our challenging children and those who live near them. Sometimes, very little helps. Think of the parents, imagine having to cope with that noise and upset and disruption, all.the.time.

Roosnoodles · 12/08/2024 23:30

Jimmyneutronsforehead · 12/08/2024 23:20

I'm actually glad you asked because it's so far out of public knowledge now a lot of people genuinely won't know what it was like, and I can totally understand the perception of there being more autism around for lots of people but it's that there's more understanding and thankfully more tolerance for it. I wouldn't say we're at acceptance level just yet and we're certainly not at accomodation level as a society, but people forget we've come a long way in understanding autism, and the pps advocating for secluded living away from society and medicating should pause for a moment and think about the horrors that happened to subdue these poor people who had higher levels of support needs that weren't accomodated.

My lovely neighbour over the road spent all last summer fitting me some new fence posts with his son who is in his 50s, so he must be in his 70s to 80s, and I thought it was always just the two of them but it turns out he had a daughter that was very likely autistic, lots of support needs, and when my mum used to go over and ask if his son wanted to play out they were never allowed to mention the daughter. It was as though she never existed. She wasn't allowed to see the light of day. She'd died from aggressively stimming one day and the coroners actually told the family that they'd wait till it was quieter to transport the body. None of them cried, they went back to business as usual, and again nobody would talk about her. My mum was a 70s child, and it's really sad because it's not an uncommon tale.

Autistic children were seen as shameful because it made parenting look bad. There weren't many cycle breaking parents of autistic children back then, and there was a lot of focus on modifying their behaviour to be more neurotypical than understanding and celebrating the differences of being neurodivergent.

It looks like I have a lot of reading to do. It wasn’t a nice time in the 70s so much was hidden away. Thank you all the people that responded. It looks like I have some reading to do. I do think we should understand the past to make sure the future is better.

Mummysaf · 12/08/2024 23:29

I hope she gets rehoused in a nice big house with a lovely garden
and you are still the same horrible person

BlackFriYay · 12/08/2024 23:22

@Ihopeithinkiknow not to derail the thread and I hope you don't mind, I just wanted to say that I'm truly sorry for your loss.

My heart sank when I read your post shortly after going in to check on my sleeping DS (who is little and just like you said of your boy, a bloody nightmare at times)

Yet, I don't know how I would cope with losing him. You must have been through utter hell.

I've been struggling today as his behaviour is off the charts challenging due to him being off school. I've had to take more than one 'time out' today to refrain from raising my voice and shouting - it's been hard.

After reading your post I just want to go in and hold him so tightly 😔

My very best wishes to you x

NotaCoolMum · 12/08/2024 23:21

God I hope they rehouse you and let the neighbours stay in their home. I understand it’s hard to hear through the walls but Do you not think as awful as it sounds to you that it’s a thousand times more difficult for the poor mother? Do you have ANY knowledge of Autism? Please educate yourself and buy some earplugs.

TheHateIsNotGood · 12/08/2024 23:20

As you refer to a 'they' to complain to I'm going to assume you've both got the same LL, and quite probably an LHA LL.

I'd be pushing for your neighbour to be rehomed to a property where the effects of their autistic child's meltdowns don't affect other tenants so much.

Jimmyneutronsforehead · 12/08/2024 23:20

Roosnoodles · 12/08/2024 23:11

That is possibly the worst answer I could have got to that question but I kind of had a feeling that something like that was coming. Thank you for the education, sometimes you need to ask the question even though you know you’re not going to like the answer.

I'm actually glad you asked because it's so far out of public knowledge now a lot of people genuinely won't know what it was like, and I can totally understand the perception of there being more autism around for lots of people but it's that there's more understanding and thankfully more tolerance for it. I wouldn't say we're at acceptance level just yet and we're certainly not at accomodation level as a society, but people forget we've come a long way in understanding autism, and the pps advocating for secluded living away from society and medicating should pause for a moment and think about the horrors that happened to subdue these poor people who had higher levels of support needs that weren't accomodated.

My lovely neighbour over the road spent all last summer fitting me some new fence posts with his son who is in his 50s, so he must be in his 70s to 80s, and I thought it was always just the two of them but it turns out he had a daughter that was very likely autistic, lots of support needs, and when my mum used to go over and ask if his son wanted to play out they were never allowed to mention the daughter. It was as though she never existed. She wasn't allowed to see the light of day. She'd died from aggressively stimming one day and the coroners actually told the family that they'd wait till it was quieter to transport the body. None of them cried, they went back to business as usual, and again nobody would talk about her. My mum was a 70s child, and it's really sad because it's not an uncommon tale.

Autistic children were seen as shameful because it made parenting look bad. There weren't many cycle breaking parents of autistic children back then, and there was a lot of focus on modifying their behaviour to be more neurotypical than understanding and celebrating the differences of being neurodivergent.

LlamaNoDrama · 12/08/2024 23:18

MuddlingMackem · 12/08/2024 21:15

I agree with @ChiCharlie, it's not appropriate housing for the girl's disability. Maybe the mother would rather be somewhere better suited, and rather than having a go at them OP you could provide supporting evidence for them to be housed somewhere suitable. She may appreciate your support on this rather than your frustration.

This

Sweetteaplease · 12/08/2024 23:17

I feel for the mother, but it's not fair on you. I would keep complaining, failing that move (assuming you don't own the property)

AstonUniversityPotholeDepartment · 12/08/2024 23:17

Roosnoodles · 12/08/2024 23:02

Not wanting to derail the thread but as there’s a lot of name calling now it seems as good a time as any. Is there anybody as old as me on here that can answer a question? In the 70s there seemed to be a lot less children with this as a problem does anyone on here know why it seems to be such a bigger problem now?

They were institutionalised and less visible. I know this, because they're now vulnerable adults in placements and nursing homes across the country.