To think it's ok to want to travel at 70mph on the motorway...

The solution is you drive in lanes 3+4.

Obviously that can change if things get quiet. But in the scenario you are describing where you are having to cross 3 lanes to overtake. Then yes that’s stupid and I call this performative lane hopping and it is incredibly dangerous.

Lane 3+4 is fine. You are travelling at speeds faster than 1+2. Hence 3. And when you need to overtake your using 4. This makes complete sense.

I’m totally with you OP.
And M25 heading north near Heathrow can be terrible for this.

My only strategy is to do “sarcastic indicating” - for longer than necessary when I have overtaken and am moving back left across numerous lanes in front of them. If the drivers are paying attention to the road, they sometimes respond. Many aren’t paying attention to the road - and don’t.

I think that what some people are defining as undertaking is just passing.

I'd say you're being unreasonable about this bit - I gave up years ago on the idea that the M25 operates like a normal motorway! You need to accept that most M25 drivers can't drive on a motorway and just go with it. Ime, the further from London you are, the better the motorway driving.

Potato I'm the southerner trying to get to Sheffield (usually but do go elsewhere).

I'm not sure those travelling north are any better than those travelling south

I think she means if she wanted to overtake someone in front of her eg a lorry.
She's not changing lanes if her lane is clear.

i think educating is the best thing, go up behind them, flash and indicate for them to move over. They move over, creating a safer environment and they learn they are driving like an arse.

Ah so you must meet the same midlanders trying to get to the south coast I do.
Use all 3 lanes for Oxford! Idiots.
And always panic they are in the wrong lane when they come off the M3 onto the A34 on the way home.

One of my biggest pet peeves, I'm always ranting to myself "just move out of the way!!" I've perfected the best side eye death stare ever apparently, all thanks to motorway rages!

Where I currently live, you must do 1/3 of your driving lessons during the day in the town / city you’re learning in, another 1/3 in town but at nighttime (or at least dusk - as a result driving schools slow down in summer), and the other 1/3 on the motorway.

Perhaps if this was implemented everywhere, people would learn how to behave on different types of roads. Exam must be a mix of slow roads + short section on a motorway - or the fastest road in the vicinity if motorways are quite a distance away, which is very rarely the case as the infrastructure is great here.

I won’t specify the country but it’s in Europe, and the driving standards here are excellent.

It also winds me up when people call the outside lane / over taking lane the "fast lane" 😤

Do not overtake on the left or move to a lane on your left to overtake. In congested conditions, where adjacent lanes of traffic are moving at similar speeds, traffic in left-hand lanes may sometimes be moving faster than traffic to the right. In these conditions you may keep up with the traffic in your lane even if this means passing traffic in the lane to your right.

@Honestlynotsure (good user name by the way here.)

This is what I posted.
The important phrase is in congested conditions.

Congested conditions to me can mean anything other than a completely clear road, not just gridlock.

Obviously, it's safer to go past a clueless wanker doing 60mph on the left rather than dive across 2/3 lanes of traffic when there is any level of traffic on the road.

If it's completely clear I might go to the right, but if there are other cars about, nope.

They were going 60mph that's actually quite fast ime. They usually sit at 50!

But no, yanbu.

I also do a lot of driving on motorways and I'm forever getting held up by accidents. And I swear it's caused by the increased number of people who think driving at 50mph down the centre of the motorway is acceptable.

It. Is. Not.

I drive M27, M3, A34, M40, M69 and M1.

It’s not undertaking if you’re in lane 1 at the safe speed and lane 2 is slow and you pass by at your same speed.
undertaking is intentionally moving a lane to the left to get around a slower driver.

i checked with the police.

It’s the definition of undertaking that has you confused OP. You’re right that you shouldn’t undertake from the first lane - but that means approaching on the left and then changing lanes to move in front of the vehicle. Moving at your own pace within the first lane is perfectly fine even if you drive past a slower car in the lane to your right - that isn’t undertaking. PP and the Highway Code are both correct, it’s your interpretation that is wrong.

It's probably more due to the fact that a lot of people don't drive on the motorways much at all. Maybe once or twice a year. Then decide that they are going to drive 300 miles going on holiday.

TBH I don't understand why people find it so difficult. I can understand why people are worried about the blind spots in the mirrors, but so long as you check your mirrors on a fairly regular basis you should know exactly what is behind you and what is coming up. Then it is just a matter of maintaining a sensible distance to the car in front and actually anticipating what other people are going to do.

I can only assume a lot of people who drive around towns normally and don't use the motorways barely use their mirrors at all.That's why you see them glued to the middle lane rigidly gripping the steering wheel at 60 mph totally oblivious to the rest of the world.

OP they are called The Middle Laners.

They think they are choosing the best option.
Like Goldilocks and the three bears. But it's about lanes, not porridge
Not too slow, not too fast. So they stay in the 'safe' middle lane.

Causing havoc as other people want to overtake and then only have Lane 3 as an option.

Having spent a lot of time on the M25 lately, the worst offence is undertaking.
VERY dangerous and a cause of potential accidents.

the other drivers you describe are horrendous but the scenario you describe you would not be undertaking if you had been in lane one all along and were not going over the speed limit.

DH and I are both solicitors (albeit not traffic specialists!) and have looked into the law around this extensively as DH became particularly exercised about it (he is an absolutely stickler for all rules and regs, the Road Code in particular). He has also checked it out with senior police road traffic experts.

@JacquesHarlow I share your pain. I drive a lot for work and like to actually progress at a speed appropriate to the road conditions. I have a relative who is terrified of this. They drive at 40, max. On the motorway. 🤦🏻‍♀️

This is for traffic jams basically - “congested conditions” - means traffic jams, or situations close to jams. That’s when you can undertake. It’s not just if you feel like gojng that speed.

Middle lane hoggers are super dangerous. They are the biggest causes of accidents. Youre right op. They should only in in lane 2 if they are going faster than you are in lane 1

I don't think you are right.

Moving in front of someone is Lane 2 or 3 when you are in Lane 1 is permitted if the other lanes are slow moving as in a queue.
Pulling ahead is otherwise not allowed.

'Working within the police' could mean you make the tea. You aren't an traffic cop I assume.

Lots of people are scared and so once onto the motorway they move out of the lefthand lane and stay put (going slowly) until they need to exit so they don't have to change lanes to let traffic on at the next junctions. This is the only explanation alongside general cluelessness and selfishness to explain such poor driving. As long as conditions are clear and decent it is annoying AF; along with people doing substantially below the speed limit even on straight, wide roads in okay weather conditions.

I think the conclusion we can come to is that many people can’t drive, and that many people are afraid of some elements of driving- particularly changing lanes whether that is to merge, allow people to merge or to overtake.
It also happens more often than it used to with people going right at roundabouts. When I learned to drive I was taught to enter in the right hand lane then move over to the left when I had passed the exit before the one I want to take. It seems more and more people go all the way in the left hand lane.
Can you tell I drive a lot?😂