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Does 'gentle parenting' work ?

541 replies

flowermo · 11/08/2024 08:48

Let me start by saying that I am not an expert at parenting styles.

I know bits and bobs from reading articles, books, talking to other mums/ grandmas and a lot of reading on Mumsnet.

I understand there are a lot of misconceptions about gentle parenting. However let me summarise my understanding- it's about firm boundaries, but doesn't promote shouting and hitting etc and generally using fear to get your kids to behave. It encourages understanding a child's development phases and what can and cannot be expected of them at any particular stage. Helping them understand and validate feelings, negative and positive ones etc.

Another style of parenting, perhaps the authoritarian style or ' traditional ' style that was used a lot in our parents generation, is a lot more shouty. Perhaps even hitting. Children are scolded for having tantrums and punished. Parents rule with fear of shouting / hitting / scolding. Kids are often scared of their parents. I remember growing up in this kind of household, as did all of my friends really.

I would say I use something in between the two styles with my children. But more on the gentler side. I don't hit but sometimes I do shout for example. I try to understand the stage of development they're at and what I can reasonably expect from their behaviour. I try to use consequences like taking toys away or denying them treats they wanted. I don't think my kids are afraid of me. I don't think I'm a particularly good parent. Or that I'm doing things right. They misbehave and I'm often stressed out. They're still small, 2 and 4 and I'm just trying to find my way.

Anyway what I'm trying to say is. I've been speaking to some other mums of slightly older kids who are also teachers. They really think that the gentle parenting approach is hurting kids and kids are out of control more than they were in the past. More authoritarian methods work better apparently and kids should be scared of their parents and should be worried about getting in trouble ( not violence ) at home, if they mess around at school. Teachers are leaving the profession because kids are so badly behaved and parents have no control over their kids.

What do you think about this? Is gentle parenting working ? Is it true that kids are so badly behaved now ? ( doesn't every generation say that about the new generation? ).

One thing I've noticed is that if I discipline my kids in public, by slightly raising my voice, people do stare. I never see any parents doing that nowadays. It was normal to get a telling off if you messed around in public when I was a child.

I'm not trying to be divisive or judge either side of the debate. I don't know what I'm doing or whether it's right. I guess I spend most of my time thinking I should be firmer, then feeling abusive when I do shout at them. I'm also lost. I really don't want to piss anyone off. So please be kind.

OP posts:
GreyCarpet · 12/08/2024 14:20

None of that is to say you shouldn't address it but know what it is you are addressing.

GreyCarpet · 12/08/2024 14:16

flowermo · 12/08/2024 13:29

I don't understand why parents can never show anger

OK. Prepare for a long response... (sorry!)

Firstly, anger is a human emotion as normal as happiness, sadness and love. So there's nothing inherently wrong with it.

Secondly, I've certainly felt crossness towards my children's behaviour at times, frustration, disappointment very occasionally but never 'anger'.

I admit there's an element of semantics here so, to clarify, to me, anger is a very extreme emotion. Crossness, displeasure, irritation, frustration are all milder emotions. To me. Some situations make us feel angry and we can experience a sense of loss of emotional control. But those should be reserved for the greatest injustices. Not a small child's behaviour (but that's just my take on it).

So, as an emotion, it's perfectly normal, and we can't control the emotional response we have to a situation. But we can control our behaviour - verbal and physical - in response to that emotion (eg you don't have to shag that married man just because you fancy him).

However, I think a lot of people misidentify their emotions because we generally have poor emotional literacy.

Essentially, the physiological response to all emotions is the same and we identify them according to context - excitement on Christmas Eve vs nervousness before an exam - the physiological response is the same). It's one of the reasons why women post on here in really shitty relationships claiming to love their partner. They're certainly feeling a big emotion but is it really love? But we can only identify the emotions we understand.

A lot of anger is actually shame. Shame is the bigger problem. But it's an emotion that isn't really discussed.

As an example, imagine your small child misbehaves in public.

It's a bit irritating because you've had to deal with one tantrum this morning already so you're behind in what you need to do (frustration and pressure of expectation). What makes it worse is that you feel like everyone else is watching you and judging your parenting and you're embarrassed by how your child is behaving (shame). This feels intense and you experience the intense emotion as anger. And the source of that anger as your child.

You feel 'angry' with the child in case other people are watching and you think they're judging you to be a shit parent who can't control their child. So you shout at your child to get them to stop. It doesn't work. The shouting escalates the child's behaviour because your child doesn't have any labels for their emotions. They just feel bad and intensely something. You might find yourself throwing out a threat or two, "If you don't stop... then..." Your child reacts more. They've got no space to calm down. They feel horrible and their safe person is shouting at them.

At this point, everyone has lost it because the parent has misidentified their emotions as anger towards.the child when it's actually frustration and shame. And are trying to manage those feelings in themselves by controlling their child's behaviour. Parent and child are both dysregulated. No one wins and the parent is expecting a degree of emotional control of a child that they don't have themselves (or they wouldn't be feeling so 'angry').

It's far better to acknolwege the initial emotion as frustration (circumstantial) and the second emotion as shame (down to societal expectations) because then it's easier to see, with clarity, that your child is struggling and, actually, it's not appropriate to be 'angry' with them.

It's the same when your child won't give up a toy someome else had first or hits another child. You feel frustrated by their behaviour and shame at how you and your child might be viewed by others/the fact you couldn't stop it.

So, to go back to your question, is 'anger' really what you are feeling or is it something else? And is there a better way of responding than 'showing anger'.

I don't know how well I've explained that. I was trying to keep it short!

LaDamaDeElche · 12/08/2024 14:10

Morningsiesta · 11/08/2024 09:05

Kids are all different. There isn't one approach that works for everyone.

This!

Tandora · 12/08/2024 13:44

Wantitalltogoaway · 11/08/2024 20:41

Also, 10 minutes of good behaviour? Why did you make it so complicated? It was really quite simple IMO!

Because I tried telling her she needed to behave if she wanted to do her activity but it wasn’t working- she was getting more wound up.
I felt like following through and banning the activity altogether would be too punitive- it was everything she was looking forward to and the other kids were all going to do it anyway, so she would have had to sit out and watch. It would have ruined the whole day/ her entire trip and I didn’t think she had the capacity to understand the full future consequence and immediately calm down.
So the compromise I settled on was delaying the activity for 10 mins. She was still really wound up about that, as it meant the other kids got “more time” but it felt more proportionate.
God knows what is right- I struggle with what are appropriate “consequences” and I don’t find the “gentle parenting” advice very helpful/
practical. There are lots of situations where the natural or logical consequences are far too long term or abstract for a small child to easily understand.

flowermo · 12/08/2024 13:44

Singleandproud · 12/08/2024 13:31

@flowermo Parents can show anger but it shouldn't be scary or intimidating. And if you wouldn't want a teacher to react in the same way to your child you shouldn't either

I'm completely happy for any teacher or adult care taker to speak to my children the way I have. Even for them to show the level of anger I've shown, I have absolutely no problem with that. In fact, I encourage it.

I've stood outside the nursery before and heard the staff in there use a louder voice with the kids and dare I say, even a slightly angry tone.

Nothing extreme. But for kids to see anger sometimes and to see that their behaviour makes you angry, is a normal reaction. We aren't cold, calculated robots.

OP posts:
Differentstarts · 12/08/2024 13:35

I was stricter and less patient and shouted more with my first she's 7 and a great kid. I was calmer and more relaxed with my youngest shes 3 and she's a right little madam. Obviously we haven't got to the teenage years yet so don't know what fresh hell that will bring. I think parenting is only part of it though and it depends of personality any underlying mh and nd issues that haven't arisen yet, environment ect. They've unfortunately both had a bit of a shit start in life and not the most stable upbringing so I think that may also influence what type of people they become in the future. I think its that kind of nature/nurture argument

MrsSunshine2b · 12/08/2024 13:34

flowermo · 12/08/2024 13:29

I don't understand why parents can never show anger

It makes no sense that we are supposed to allow children to express anger and validate it but we have to suppress our own natural anger! Is it any wonder why we have groups full of furious crunchy Mums berating other Mums for doing gentle parenting wrong on facebook, being entirely ungentle as their suppressed rage erupts?

Singleandproud · 12/08/2024 13:31

@flowermo Parents can show anger but it shouldn't be scary or intimidating. And if you wouldn't want a teacher to react in the same way to your child you shouldn't either

flowermo · 12/08/2024 13:29

I don't understand why parents can never show anger

OP posts:
GreyCarpet · 12/08/2024 13:27

One's son calls her a useless cunt and punches walls next to her head! He's 14! She keeps trying to take his hands and tell him that it's OK to be angry but it's still no then he pulls away and puts a dent in the wall and screams abuse in her face. He was never disciplined when he was young and now she physically can't control him.

Again, that's not a result of gentle parenting though. That's a result of an absence of parenting.

If your child behaves like that, you've failed as a parent regardless of whatever ethos you think you've followed.

GreyCarpet · 12/08/2024 13:23

Mumoftwo1316 · 12/08/2024 13:00

Yep. It sucks. It centres the perpetrator always at the expense of the victim. Because, of course, the theory goes that the hitting child is merely expressing himself and his Big Feelings (let's be honest it's often a boy doing the pushing/hitting.)

Nevermind the Big Feelings of the kid who's just been pushed over, who sees the pushing child get away with it scot free and even get cooed at and listened to.

If it makes me Authoritarian to have a zero-tolerance policy to violent behaviour, then ok I'm Authoritarian.

Everyone always says it's never OK to smack a child, and I whole heartedly agree.

It's also not ok to condone a child hitting another child.

So many on here have flamed me for this saying "hitting and biting are age-expected behaviour". Ok, maybe so (I don't necessarily agree) but just like toilet training, it is something you must actively train your child not to do, in a prompt and effective way.

I've never seen children who hit and push, trained out of it effectively the Gentle Parenting way.

I've never seen children who hit and push, trained out of it effectively the Gentle Parenting way.

I have.

First step was removing the aggressor (for want of a better word). Making sure they were safe and in view but returning to the hurt child.

If the aggressor returned for attention, the adult spoke gently (rather than angrily or to make them feel shame) to the child but made it clear their focus was on the hurt child because, eg "i can't cuddle you right now because I'm cuddling X. You hurt them l and upset them when you hit them and I need to make sure they're OK."

Rather than a more aggressive, "Go away, I don't want to look at you right now because you made your sister cry!"

It takes the focus away from the aggressor and puts it onto the victim. When the hurt child was consoled (which, tbf, happens quite quickly in young children if they feel heard), they returned to the aggressor.

No shouting and dealing with the situation with empathy and without criticism meant that the aggressor responded to the soothing tones and calmed down more quickly. There was no, "I know, the mean, nasty boy hurt you" type comments and nothing that would affect the child's self esteem.

The behaviour escalates when the child feels shame. If they believe that they are still loved, even though they made a mistake, their self esteem is in tact and they are able to develop empathy.

The problems arise when you encounter that behaviour from a child with crap parenting who focuses on how their 'poor baby' is feeling and doesn't address the unacceptable nature of it. They don't learn then.

At it's core, gentle parenting should be about raising children without feeling shame. That is not the same as raising them without feeling responsibility.

usernamealreadytaken · 12/08/2024 13:18

namechange128468 · 11/08/2024 09:06

Gentle Parenting does work - however, a lot of people believe that they are following gentle parenting when they are actually being permissive, and I think this understandably causes a lot of misconceptions about gentle parenting.

Gentle parenting is authoritative - it promotes firm boundaries which are consistently and immediately upheld, but in a way which is respectful of the child and which doesn’t depend on threat or fear the way hitting and shouting do.

My 3yo son had a friend over recently and they were playing with my son’s cars. My son snatched a car from his friend and said ‘that’s mine!’. I immediately intervened to remove the car from my son and return it to his friend. I said ‘we don’t snatch things from people. If you want something, you ask them if you can please have it.’ That caused my son to cry, so I soothed him until he was calm.

When he was calm, we practiced asking nicely for the car. He asked his friend for it, the friend said no. My son looked at me, I told him ‘Your friend isn’t ready to give you the car. Would you like to play with this car instead?’. My son agreed, all was fine. If that had sparked another cry, I’d have soothed and supported him through that too.

Gentle Parenting works because children love and benefit from firm boundaries, but it doesn’t rely on punishment which means your child trusts you. When confronted with a tricky situation like sharing a car, you are a problem solver working alongside them and helping them find a solution, rather than a domineering force punishing them for not getting it right. But at the same time, you’re holding a firm boundary that they aren’t allowed to snatch and it won’t get them what they want.

A lot of people believe they are gentle parenting because they acknowledge their child’s feelings and don’t shout or punish, but they also don’t hold firm boundaries. That’s hopeless and leads to anxious children who constantly resist direction because they’re testing where the boundaries actually are.

How did you remove the car from your son? Did you ask his permission before taking it back? What would you have done if he had refused to give it to you?

GreyCarpet · 12/08/2024 13:02

fitzwilliamdarcy · 12/08/2024 12:49

How does all the sitting and cuddling and validating the Big Feelings of a child that's just hit another work if the child that's been hit is a sibling?

Because my mum was a big fan of Gentle Parenting the crap out of my sister when she hit me, and ignoring me when I was crying because I'd been hit.

She couldn't sit and cuddle and validate both of us, so she picked the youngest, always.

I've posted this on a number of threads on the topic and nobody has ever been able to answer - I assume because what happens is what happened to me when I was little, and nobody wants to cop to that.

I'll try to answer it...

It's because she didn't know what to do. She didn't know how to stop your sister from doing it.

Maybe she thought your sister was communicating an unmet need in herself and she was trying to meet that.

Maybe you sister had a more voliatile personality and she was scared of excalating her behaviour.

Maybe she was scared of your sister becoming aggressive to her in the future.

Maybe she was scared of having an aggressive child (esp a daughter) full stop.

Maybe she was just trying to calm the situation in the only way she knew how.

Maybe she was just a weak and ineffectual parent who didn't know any better. But it wasn't right and it shouldn't have happened.

A lot of the confusion around 'gentle parenting' is that l, as many have said, it does become confused with permissive parenting - no rules, no boundaries, no consequences, never saying no etc. That's not what it means. It requires hard work, a lot of investment and the adult being able to manage their own emotions. It doesn't mean excusing, ignoring or facilitating poor behaviour.

Mumoftwo1316 · 12/08/2024 13:00

fitzwilliamdarcy · 12/08/2024 12:49

How does all the sitting and cuddling and validating the Big Feelings of a child that's just hit another work if the child that's been hit is a sibling?

Because my mum was a big fan of Gentle Parenting the crap out of my sister when she hit me, and ignoring me when I was crying because I'd been hit.

She couldn't sit and cuddle and validate both of us, so she picked the youngest, always.

I've posted this on a number of threads on the topic and nobody has ever been able to answer - I assume because what happens is what happened to me when I was little, and nobody wants to cop to that.

Yep. It sucks. It centres the perpetrator always at the expense of the victim. Because, of course, the theory goes that the hitting child is merely expressing himself and his Big Feelings (let's be honest it's often a boy doing the pushing/hitting.)

Nevermind the Big Feelings of the kid who's just been pushed over, who sees the pushing child get away with it scot free and even get cooed at and listened to.

If it makes me Authoritarian to have a zero-tolerance policy to violent behaviour, then ok I'm Authoritarian.

Everyone always says it's never OK to smack a child, and I whole heartedly agree.

It's also not ok to condone a child hitting another child.

So many on here have flamed me for this saying "hitting and biting are age-expected behaviour". Ok, maybe so (I don't necessarily agree) but just like toilet training, it is something you must actively train your child not to do, in a prompt and effective way.

I've never seen children who hit and push, trained out of it effectively the Gentle Parenting way.

Singleandproud · 12/08/2024 12:55

@fitzwilliamdarcy but that's not particularly gentle parenting either, the child who is hit should be comforted first, the hitter should apologise and then a discussion as best as possible between the two on what to do next time.

People picking and choosing is what gives any method of anything a bad name things work if you don't it properly but if you do it half arsed and pick the bits you like and ignore the bits you don't then it doesn't.

fitzwilliamdarcy · 12/08/2024 12:49

How does all the sitting and cuddling and validating the Big Feelings of a child that's just hit another work if the child that's been hit is a sibling?

Because my mum was a big fan of Gentle Parenting the crap out of my sister when she hit me, and ignoring me when I was crying because I'd been hit.

She couldn't sit and cuddle and validate both of us, so she picked the youngest, always.

I've posted this on a number of threads on the topic and nobody has ever been able to answer - I assume because what happens is what happened to me when I was little, and nobody wants to cop to that.

GreyCarpet · 12/08/2024 12:47

Another example is that, when she was small, if she strayed too far in the park (for example) and I called her back and she refused, I'd do a countdown from 3. If, after 3, she hadn't come closer, I'd go and get her. If I had to get her, we'd go home because I needed to trust that she would come back when called for her own safety.

She quickly learnt that, and I could just hold 3 fingers up and call her name and she'd come back so there was never any need for shouting.

GreyCarpet · 12/08/2024 12:35

Mumoftwo1316 · 12/08/2024 12:06

Anyway, I rang school and explained we were going to be a few minutes late and why. School said, no problem. Daughter was horrified but after a few more mins, put her shoes on and stood by the door ready to go.

The reason why this bit worked, imo, was because of approval/disapproval. Your dd didn't want her teachers to disapprove of her behaviour: she would have felt (mildly) embarrassed/ashamed that her teachers knew she was refusing to put on her shoes. You deferred the disapproval to her teachers rather than expressing it yourself, which is a valid way of doing it, but it's still utilising disapproval.

Disapproval is so powerful in steering behaviour and, in my opinion, is truly gentle as opposed to Gentle Parenting.

She was testing me. That was the whole point of it. She was trying to find out where the boundaries lay and how far she could push them. Because she was a small child and that's what they do.

I didn't mock her or humiliate her. I wasn't asking the school to be cross. I called and said I was just letting them know we'd be a few mins late because she hadn't got her shoes on yet. Like you might say you were running late because the car wouldn't start. The school understood why that was without me saying.

I wasn't cross, I didn't shout or threaten punishments (that's the 'gentle' part) but I did explain that if she didn't put them on, (the consequence would be) we couldn't leave on time and (the consequences of that would be) that we would be late and (the consequences of that would be) I'd have to call school to explain.

She was actually in control of the narrative the whole time. Not because she was allowed to do what she wanted and she was in 'control' (which some people think it means) but because she understood things worked in her favour if she stuck to the boundaries, followed the rules and did what was required of her. And she wasn't just doing them because an adult told her to.

She then learnt that, if she said "Mummy. If I wash my face, brush my teeth and get ready for bed first, can I stay up a bit later and watch Monsters Inc?" Or whatever. And, if she did, she was allowed. And, if it wasn't possible, I'd explain why and we'd do it the following night instead.

So I never had to do the chasing around, shouting, threats and punishments because she learnt to discipline and manage herself.

She was a very wilfull child and is a wilfull adult now! No one would ever describe her as docile or compliant. But she has also never been in trouble, is self motivated and self disciplined, kind and respectful and knows that only she is responsible for her choices and her actions. I've never had to stand over her to make sure she does her homework. Although, her bedroom could do with being a bit tidier... but that's literally the only issue I've ever had.

If I'd let her, she'd have been the small child running around in restaurants, shouting "No!" all the time and I'd have been tearing my hair out in her teenage years, shrugging my shoulders, throwing up my hands in despair and exclaiming, "What can you do? Kids'll be kids!"

flowermo · 12/08/2024 12:10

sweeneytoddsrazor · 12/08/2024 12:08

Haven't read through the whole thread, but I think the use of the word scared is a difficult one. I was scared my parents would discipline me if I did something wrong at school so I behaved. But I wasn't scared of my parents. My parents loved me and told me and showed me this, but rightly I was told off if I misbehaved. They weren't violent or scary with the discipline most likely I would have been grounded for an evening or something but as I knew there would be consequences I made sure my behaviour was acceptable

I totally agree with this and this is the only ' scared ' I actually meant in the OP.

Scared there are going to be consequences for your behaviour from your parents. Not scared of your actual parents.

OP posts:
sweeneytoddsrazor · 12/08/2024 12:08

Haven't read through the whole thread, but I think the use of the word scared is a difficult one. I was scared my parents would discipline me if I did something wrong at school so I behaved. But I wasn't scared of my parents. My parents loved me and told me and showed me this, but rightly I was told off if I misbehaved. They weren't violent or scary with the discipline most likely I would have been grounded for an evening or something but as I knew there would be consequences I made sure my behaviour was acceptable

Mumoftwo1316 · 12/08/2024 12:06

GreyCarpet · 12/08/2024 11:59

Ah, fair enough.

When my daughter was younger, there were a few times she couldn't go out to play because of shoe refusal.

It really irked her.

When she was in reception, she tried it again.

I didn't raise my voice, didn't get cross, just said as normal to put her shoes on to get ready to leave. She refused. I asked her again. She refused again. So I left it.

As the time arrived when we needed to leave for school, I asked her again and explained that, if she didn't put them on, we'd be late and I'd have to call school to explain why we were going to be late.

She was (and still is!) a defiant little thing and felt pretty confident I wouldn't actually do it. So she sat there. No shoes.

Anyway, I rang school and explained we were going to be a few minutes late and why. School said, no problem. Daughter was horrified but after a few more mins, put her shoes on and stood by the door ready to go. I didn't make a big deal out of it. It didn't happen again.

No raised voices, no punishments. No repeat offences.

Anyway, I rang school and explained we were going to be a few minutes late and why. School said, no problem. Daughter was horrified but after a few more mins, put her shoes on and stood by the door ready to go.

The reason why this bit worked, imo, was because of approval/disapproval. Your dd didn't want her teachers to disapprove of her behaviour: she would have felt (mildly) embarrassed/ashamed that her teachers knew she was refusing to put on her shoes. You deferred the disapproval to her teachers rather than expressing it yourself, which is a valid way of doing it, but it's still utilising disapproval.

Disapproval is so powerful in steering behaviour and, in my opinion, is truly gentle as opposed to Gentle Parenting.

GreyCarpet · 12/08/2024 11:59

flowermo · 12/08/2024 11:46

I'm not talking about when you're going outside to play.

I mean when you have to get out of the door to nursery or school.

Yes of course if it's to play, it's either shoes on or no play.

Ah, fair enough.

When my daughter was younger, there were a few times she couldn't go out to play because of shoe refusal.

It really irked her.

When she was in reception, she tried it again.

I didn't raise my voice, didn't get cross, just said as normal to put her shoes on to get ready to leave. She refused. I asked her again. She refused again. So I left it.

As the time arrived when we needed to leave for school, I asked her again and explained that, if she didn't put them on, we'd be late and I'd have to call school to explain why we were going to be late.

She was (and still is!) a defiant little thing and felt pretty confident I wouldn't actually do it. So she sat there. No shoes.

Anyway, I rang school and explained we were going to be a few minutes late and why. School said, no problem. Daughter was horrified but after a few more mins, put her shoes on and stood by the door ready to go. I didn't make a big deal out of it. It didn't happen again.

No raised voices, no punishments. No repeat offences.

Mumoftwo1316 · 12/08/2024 11:50

Where I deviate from Gentle parenting, as I understand it, is in the use of disapproval.

Children are hard wired to want approval. They want to be liked and praised.

If my child hits another, which has happened maybe once or twice ever, I'm going to show a bit of disapproving astonishment, in my facial expression and in words. A tiny bit goes a long way. "Did you...just...hit your friend? Never ever do that!"

I got absolutely flamed for this on another thread about gentle parenting. Apparently showing disapproval of your child's behaviour causes lifelong trauma or ruins their sense of self or something. It's better, according to gentle parenting advocates, to allow your child to hit other children with impunity, repeatedly, until they are old enough to understand empathy, which can take years. Never mind the poor kids who are getting hit. At the most you smilingly sing some "gentle hands" or similar, totally normalising violence and turning it into some delightful game.

It's not fair to the hitting victims and this is a parenting hill I'll die on tbh. I'm so fed up of hearing that my dd has been pushed over at nursery, or seeing it happen at the soft play. Children must be actively prevented from being violent to others.

flowermo · 12/08/2024 11:46

GreyCarpet · 12/08/2024 11:45

flowermo

Actually, I'd see the natural consequence of refusing to put shoes on to play outside is that you don't go outside to play.

That is the natural consequence of the choice that they have made.

If you do it for them, there has been no consequence to their refusal.

Letting them go outside anyway and get wet feet is neglectful.

Putting their shoes on for them hasn't taught them anything other than if I refuse to do something I don't want to do, mummy will do it for me, and I still get what I want!

I'm not talking about when you're going outside to play.

I mean when you have to get out of the door to nursery or school.

Yes of course if it's to play, it's either shoes on or no play.

OP posts:
GreyCarpet · 12/08/2024 11:45

flowermo

Actually, I'd see the natural consequence of refusing to put shoes on to play outside is that you don't go outside to play.

That is the natural consequence of the choice that they have made.

If you do it for them, there has been no consequence to their refusal.

Letting them go outside anyway and get wet feet is neglectful.

Putting their shoes on for them hasn't taught them anything other than if I refuse to do something I don't want to do, mummy will do it for me, and I still get what I want!