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Does 'gentle parenting' work ?

541 replies

flowermo · 11/08/2024 08:48

Let me start by saying that I am not an expert at parenting styles.

I know bits and bobs from reading articles, books, talking to other mums/ grandmas and a lot of reading on Mumsnet.

I understand there are a lot of misconceptions about gentle parenting. However let me summarise my understanding- it's about firm boundaries, but doesn't promote shouting and hitting etc and generally using fear to get your kids to behave. It encourages understanding a child's development phases and what can and cannot be expected of them at any particular stage. Helping them understand and validate feelings, negative and positive ones etc.

Another style of parenting, perhaps the authoritarian style or ' traditional ' style that was used a lot in our parents generation, is a lot more shouty. Perhaps even hitting. Children are scolded for having tantrums and punished. Parents rule with fear of shouting / hitting / scolding. Kids are often scared of their parents. I remember growing up in this kind of household, as did all of my friends really.

I would say I use something in between the two styles with my children. But more on the gentler side. I don't hit but sometimes I do shout for example. I try to understand the stage of development they're at and what I can reasonably expect from their behaviour. I try to use consequences like taking toys away or denying them treats they wanted. I don't think my kids are afraid of me. I don't think I'm a particularly good parent. Or that I'm doing things right. They misbehave and I'm often stressed out. They're still small, 2 and 4 and I'm just trying to find my way.

Anyway what I'm trying to say is. I've been speaking to some other mums of slightly older kids who are also teachers. They really think that the gentle parenting approach is hurting kids and kids are out of control more than they were in the past. More authoritarian methods work better apparently and kids should be scared of their parents and should be worried about getting in trouble ( not violence ) at home, if they mess around at school. Teachers are leaving the profession because kids are so badly behaved and parents have no control over their kids.

What do you think about this? Is gentle parenting working ? Is it true that kids are so badly behaved now ? ( doesn't every generation say that about the new generation? ).

One thing I've noticed is that if I discipline my kids in public, by slightly raising my voice, people do stare. I never see any parents doing that nowadays. It was normal to get a telling off if you messed around in public when I was a child.

I'm not trying to be divisive or judge either side of the debate. I don't know what I'm doing or whether it's right. I guess I spend most of my time thinking I should be firmer, then feeling abusive when I do shout at them. I'm also lost. I really don't want to piss anyone off. So please be kind.

OP posts:
Nadeed · 12/08/2024 18:46

@GreyCarpet First off all making young children feel valued, loved and cared for. Neglected children can hit through jealousy and anger.
Secondly saying to child do not hit, that is wrong, it hurts. Pick them up, explain what they did wrong and get them to say sorry to the child they hit.

GreyCarpet · 12/08/2024 18:44

Mumoftwo1316 · 12/08/2024 18:41

If you sing smilingly "be kind! Gentle hands!" That is confusing to a child because they can't work out if they're being praised or if it's disapproval. "I'm being told to stop hitting, in words, but not in a cross or displeased or shocked way, so maybe... it's not that bad that I hit...? It's just a fun game?" That's what they're thinking

Can you point to a single poster who has said this is the way to approach it?

Because I've missed it if there was one.

GreyCarpet · 12/08/2024 18:43

Nadeed · 12/08/2024 18:13

So they just keep hitting until every other child and parent is avoiding them? That is pretty much what I have witnessed. Kids do not want to play with them and they do not get invited to play dates.
It seems a really harsh way to learn a lesson.

What would your solution be? Genuine question.

Because, at the moment, you're contradicting but not offering an alternative.

Because if you think that shouting at children and punishing them in some way is going to stop them from hitting, you're very wrong.

Otherwise, it wouldn't be the same children day in, day out and and week in, week out who are are in trouble for it in schools, missing their breaktime, having their parents called in etc.

Nadeed · 12/08/2024 18:41

@BubblesNSnuggles I already said I have never had to do that.

Mumoftwo1316 · 12/08/2024 18:41

If you sing smilingly "be kind! Gentle hands!" That is confusing to a child because they can't work out if they're being praised or if it's disapproval. "I'm being told to stop hitting, in words, but not in a cross or displeased or shocked way, so maybe... it's not that bad that I hit...? It's just a fun game?" That's what they're thinking

Tandora · 12/08/2024 18:40

GreyCarpet · 12/08/2024 17:19

No, consequences aren't something you think up. They're not synonymous with punishment.

A natural consequence is something that happens as a result of a particular action or inaction.

In the way that, if you don't leave for work on time, you'll likely be late for work and you might have to work later to make up the time and get your job done. Having to work late isn't a punishment for arriving at work late but it is a consequence of it.

Well this is exactly the problem isn’t it? This is why gentle parenting is impractical. Small children often don’t have the capacity to foresee and understand natural consequences- hence they need to be parented!!

Natural consequences may be subtle , long term, they may even be catastrophic!! If children had the ability to understand the natural consequences of all their actions (which after all also often requires experience / sophistication in perception/ understanding ) we wouldn’t be needing to raise them.

BubblesNSnuggles · 12/08/2024 18:39

Nadeed · 12/08/2024 18:36

@BubblesNSnuggles Okay I will help you get dressed. But I have never reached that point.
I rarely shout at my children, so when I do they know they have pushed me too far.

And then proceed to chase then around the house whilst they avoid getting dressed? Force arms into a shirt whilst they pull away from you? How far does it go?
we could take this to extremes.

Gilbertwasawuss · 12/08/2024 18:39

My cousins were gentle parented (aunt and uncle very ahead of the times).
They both have struggled with anxiety but are in successful careers and have a beautiful relationship with their parents.

My sister and I were not gentle parented.
Both have struggled with anxiety.
Both unemployed or didn't go to higher education.
Both struggle with our relationship with our mum and I went NC with my dad.

I think at the end of the day, it works and I was/am incredibly jealous of my cousins.

It doesn't prevent anxiety or mental health issues, but you will likely have children that want to be around you and who feel supported to be successful.

Mumoftwo1316 · 12/08/2024 18:37

Nadeed · 12/08/2024 18:28

That isn't kind is pretty wishy washy disapproval. You have to understand what kind is and why it matters. Simply saying don't hit, it hurts, is much simpler to understand.
Shame through public humiliation is not a punishment I would inflict on my DCs. Feeling contrition, because they have done something wrong is very different from public humiliation.

I agree it is wishy washy. That is why pp's 5yo hasn't stopped hitting his 2yo sister yet. But the only reason why it works even a bit is because of the (accidental?) disapproval. The child's desire for approval and fear of disapproval is the only driver.

"Being kind" is far too abstract a theoretical concept to try and use without any emotional underpinning.

"Being kind" only works when the child understands "being kind = my mum's pleased" and "Being unkind = my mum's displeased, I feel contrite". [Or other parent, or teacher, grandparent etc]

Nadeed · 12/08/2024 18:36

@BubblesNSnuggles Okay I will help you get dressed. But I have never reached that point.
I rarely shout at my children, so when I do they know they have pushed me too far.

BubblesNSnuggles · 12/08/2024 18:35

Nadeed · 12/08/2024 18:33

@BubblesNSnuggles We HAVE TO GO. GET DRESSED NOW. I WILL NOT TELL YOU AGAIN.

Edited

And then if they don’t. Then what?

BubblesNSnuggles · 12/08/2024 18:34

Mumoftwo1316 · 12/08/2024 18:24

I didn't say anyone should "shame" anyone, which implies a sort of public telling off. But he does need to feel ashamed, or contrite if you prefer, if you dislike the word ashamed. If not, if he doesn't ever feel deep down that it's inherently wrong to assault a younger child/girl, but only to fear the consequences- what are you teaching him? It's ok to hit a girl if he doesn't get found out? Or it's ok to hit as long as you're happy to accept the consequences?

I think, by saying sternly "that isn't kind", you are expressing disapproval and thereby mildly causing him to feel ashamed. Which imo is good because that's the only way he will restrain himself from doing it. By thinking in his head "no I mustn't do that, it's wrong, I would be behaving shamefully if I did that."

This is my point - that is what gentle parenting is!

im not making him fear a consequence but explaining to him why we don’t hurt other people. Im also not making him feel ashamed or shaming him - im not saying ‘what a horrible thing to do to make your sister hurt!’
simpky explaining that if he is unkind with his body he will hurt people and it’s not kind. He wouldn’t like if somebody did it to him and we don’t do it to other people.

Nadeed · 12/08/2024 18:33

@BubblesNSnuggles We HAVE TO GO. GET DRESSED NOW. I WILL NOT TELL YOU AGAIN.

Nadeed · 12/08/2024 18:32

@GreyCarpet I think your solutions can work in some cases, but it is over simplistic. Kids do not want to put socks and shoes on because they want to stay home and play. They do not want to get dressed because they do not like wearing the school uniform. They hate leaving mummy and want to stay home and play with their younger siblings. Do you never want to not go to work?

Mumoftwo1316 · 12/08/2024 18:30

Nadeed · 12/08/2024 18:21

I asked these questions because I think gentle parenting can sometimes be extremely harsh. I think in the examples given, you are using shame to discipline a child by taking them in their pyjamas to school. And using social ostracization to make a child treat other children okay. It seems much kinder to simply say no you don't hit other children, and put them in time out.

The example of phoning the teacher "my daughter is late because she won't put on her shoes" is exactly the same, also using public shame (ie the disapproval of the teacher). The pp who gave this anecdote didn't see that's why it worked

BubblesNSnuggles · 12/08/2024 18:30

Nadeed · 12/08/2024 18:04

I think that is extremely humiliating and a very harsh punishment. It is using shame to make a child comply.

Edited

What explaining to them that If they do not get dressed they would have to be taken in their pyjamas?

I’ve never taken them in their pyjamas as they’ve always decided they wouldn’t like that so have got dressed? I need to leave the house by a certain time, as do they.

i am not going to stand and argue with them. They have been told in five minutes they need to get dressed. They have been then told at the correct time that it is time to get dressed. Help is available if they feel they need it and their clothes laid out ready for them. They have then been asked again and reminded that we need to leave for school at a certain time. They have been given adequate time to begin getting dressed. At this point it is a firm ‘it is time to get dressed. If you do not get dressed then you will have to go to school like that in your pyjamas. What would you like to do?’

Differentstarts · 12/08/2024 18:28

Some of this stuff is actually shocking I hope mh services in the nhs greatly improve in the next 10/20 years because my god theirs going to be a lot of screwed up adults

Nadeed · 12/08/2024 18:28

Mumoftwo1316 · 12/08/2024 18:24

I didn't say anyone should "shame" anyone, which implies a sort of public telling off. But he does need to feel ashamed, or contrite if you prefer, if you dislike the word ashamed. If not, if he doesn't ever feel deep down that it's inherently wrong to assault a younger child/girl, but only to fear the consequences- what are you teaching him? It's ok to hit a girl if he doesn't get found out? Or it's ok to hit as long as you're happy to accept the consequences?

I think, by saying sternly "that isn't kind", you are expressing disapproval and thereby mildly causing him to feel ashamed. Which imo is good because that's the only way he will restrain himself from doing it. By thinking in his head "no I mustn't do that, it's wrong, I would be behaving shamefully if I did that."

That isn't kind is pretty wishy washy disapproval. You have to understand what kind is and why it matters. Simply saying don't hit, it hurts, is much simpler to understand.
Shame through public humiliation is not a punishment I would inflict on my DCs. Feeling contrition, because they have done something wrong is very different from public humiliation.

GreyCarpet · 12/08/2024 18:27

Nadeed · 12/08/2024 18:11

@GreyCarpet so you think if you have a calm atmosphere and you give children enough time to get ready for school there will be zero issues? So if they need 3 hours to get ready before leaving for breakfast club you get everyone up 3 hours before you have to leave?

What possible reason would there be for a child needing 3 hours to get ready for school if they have woken up into a calm environment where the focus is getting out of the house and going to school?

Without distractions, there's literally nothing else to do in the morning. There are no alternatives.

Like I say, it's a problem that is always resolved by the adult changing something about the way the morning looks in their house. Whether the adult chooses to follow the advice or how well they follow it is a different matter.

At some point, parents have to parent.

greengreyblue · 12/08/2024 18:26

Your job as a parent is to teach your child how to behave, not just let them work it out by themselves. That borders on neglect.

Differentstarts · 12/08/2024 18:25

Nadeed · 12/08/2024 18:21

I asked these questions because I think gentle parenting can sometimes be extremely harsh. I think in the examples given, you are using shame to discipline a child by taking them in their pyjamas to school. And using social ostracization to make a child treat other children okay. It seems much kinder to simply say no you don't hit other children, and put them in time out.

I agree with this. Some people seem so scared to tell their kids no but have no issues with emotional abuse.

Missamyp · 12/08/2024 18:25

Differentstarts · 12/08/2024 18:08

This is somebody else's home they shouldn't have to move things you need to teach your child not to touch and you need to be actually watch them. I hope you bought your mum a new gravy boat. And this is why I won't let dismissive parents bring their kids round

Imagine feeling entitled to think you and your offspring shouldn't respect other people's possessions and homes.
The mind boggles.

Of course, she's only two and has big feelings.

Mumoftwo1316 · 12/08/2024 18:24

BubblesNSnuggles · 12/08/2024 17:34

But he is stopping - it’s gone from being something he did more frequently when he was a young toddler to now being a very rare occurrence. Without being shamed.

i haven’t said that I’ve never shown shock. I have always explained that he can’t hit, that it hurts, that it isn’t kind. He has always had time to regulate before apologising and always had a consequence of some kind. Your understanding of gentle parenting isn’t quite correct.

additionally, you can hold that opinion which is fine, but factually and from what we know psychologically, shaming is not effective.

a quick google search will reassure that the occasional hitting at age 5 is absolutely normal and the recommended way to respond is not to shout or shame.

I haven’t ever said it is ok for anyone to physically hurt anyone. I am explicitly teaching the direct opposite.

I didn't say anyone should "shame" anyone, which implies a sort of public telling off. But he does need to feel ashamed, or contrite if you prefer, if you dislike the word ashamed. If not, if he doesn't ever feel deep down that it's inherently wrong to assault a younger child/girl, but only to fear the consequences- what are you teaching him? It's ok to hit a girl if he doesn't get found out? Or it's ok to hit as long as you're happy to accept the consequences?

I think, by saying sternly "that isn't kind", you are expressing disapproval and thereby mildly causing him to feel ashamed. Which imo is good because that's the only way he will restrain himself from doing it. By thinking in his head "no I mustn't do that, it's wrong, I would be behaving shamefully if I did that."

Nadeed · 12/08/2024 18:21

I asked these questions because I think gentle parenting can sometimes be extremely harsh. I think in the examples given, you are using shame to discipline a child by taking them in their pyjamas to school. And using social ostracization to make a child treat other children okay. It seems much kinder to simply say no you don't hit other children, and put them in time out.

Nadeed · 12/08/2024 18:13

GreyCarpet · 12/08/2024 18:10

No because violence is never the answer, two wrongs don't make a right and all children know what they should do (speak to an adult).

However, a natural consequence of hitting someone or being unkind might be that other children don't want to play with you anymore. And that is fine.

It's also at that point that some children make a concerted effort to change their behaviours because they have learnt that, if they want to have friends, they need to be a decent person. They might also need some help and support to achieve that. And that is fine too.

So they just keep hitting until every other child and parent is avoiding them? That is pretty much what I have witnessed. Kids do not want to play with them and they do not get invited to play dates.
It seems a really harsh way to learn a lesson.