Does 'gentle parenting' work ?

@Newbutoldfather to be fair in my Barbies example I had assumed the toy had been broken by accident. And after the chat I wouldn't have replaced the Barbie until abnormal gift giving time birthday / christmas etc

Purposeful breaking of toys would have had a different response. Identifying my emotions and laying out the consequences "I'm sad that you broke the Barbie and now you can't play with her, these other Barbie's will need to go away until you can play gently wth them" etc and when I gave them back I would remind her what had happened and why and model appropriate play with her.

But raising children is expensive, well it's as expensive as you make it (I was a single parent and not working during DDs early years so wasnt flush myself) but children need appropriate outlets.

Drawing on a wall is so common because it's easier in terms of wrist movement. If a child wants to draw standing up then yes the first time they do it on a wall you get them to help you clear it up but you also set up an appropriate standing up drawing station where they can do what they need to without causing damage - if you've got the money a proper ELC (if they still exist) easel, or a roll of cheap lining paper blutac'd to the wall or a white board aren't that expensive, a set of paintbrushes to water draw outside, get any cardboard boxes / cereal boxes and turn inside out on a table so they can draw standing upright.

I think alot of issues come from parents not meeting the child's instinctive need and play schema, redirecting to other activities that don't hit the spot or unfairly chastising them because when they are the ones that should have met the need.

I’ve tried gentle or respectful parenting with mine. She has boundaries, consequences and understands that no means no. She’s a teen and I think we’ve done a good job so far. She’s very caring, hard working, well behaved etc. I work in a school and it’s easy to spot the ones who’ve been brought up in more shouty authoritarian households and also in permissive ones too.

Absolutely agree. If nothing else, there is a big safety concern when teaching children to just carry out any request that comes from an adult.
Unfortunately, we found ourselves in a position where school is not on board with being politely questioned. ‘Rules are rules” is their standard response even if adults are trying to understand their reasoning and I am realising I’ve become “that parent”.

So true. I try to “gentle” parent wherever I can but I would not be saying “gentle hands” in this case. They would be get a stern telling off.

A “friends’s” child (5) pushed my son off a chair when he was 18m, the chair flew over and smacked him in the back of the head and really hurt him. The mother just said gentle hands I’ll talk with her later… the child is a brat. So too gentle parenting in this case does not work, although I would argue that it’s actually not parenting at all.

What is your problem? That is not gentle parenting, nobody would laugh at a child being hit. Gentle parenting would be apologising to the child and parent, removing my child and taking them home - the consequence for the bad behaviour. They'd be no treatsor reward or laughing it off.

You think it's better to just shout don't hit and that child grows up pushing down emotions he can't name because it's wrong rather than giving your child the vocabulary and understanding of why we don't hit, giving him the knowledge of his emotions, you were feeling frustrated/angry, giving him other options so that he grows up, recognises he feels frustrated or angry and has the tools to deal with that.

I totally agree, I think this is a great approach and one I try to follow too. There are some things I take a harder stance on, like if DC were to push another child. It’s only happened once, but I was very strict it’s unacceptable and would hope most other parents are too. I’m also strict on manners. Otherwise the rest of the time I try to listen to DC and understand where he is coming from. I want to DC to feel like home is a safe space and he can let his feelings out. However on the whole I’m very lucky he is only 2 but very well behaved for a 2 year old. So I’ve never really needed to discipline.

Children won’t just respond to the message but to the tone. If the tone is really friendly and they have a nice one-to-one chat, that is actually a reward, not a consequence.

This, so much this.

Parent is sitting at a little distance. 3yo thumps friend. Parent comes over and chirps smilingly "gentle hands! Gentle hands!"

Laughably ineffective.

@Mumoftwo1316

This debate recurs on mumsnet often

It does and quite often I think it’s a bit of a fig leaf for people to have a pop at what they perceive as “middle class parenting” dressed up as faux concern.

Its never that long on these threads before the hoary old trope of “middle class” names gets wheeled out. Before long there will be a “Tristram and Jemima” posited with an example of supposedly permwssive middle class behaviour. (See also the endless trope about parents who talk to their children in public and how this is supposed to be attention seeking).

Bit of a derail really and none of this matters in terms of the debate but a lot of these threads have a veiled class-bashing narrative to them.

I'm definitely not rich and never had the decorators in. My children losing the pens, helping clean the wall is the consequence and she never did it again, she gets the paper to draw on. Broken toy doesn't get replaced. It's not a nice chat like 'oh dear nevermind' it's taking time to listen and explain. You wanted to draw on the wall because you couldn't find paper, instead ask me for paper, now you have no pens and have to spend time cleaning. Next time she can't find paper she remembers losing pens and cleaning and comes to ask for paper. If she asks for a toy at Christmas she will look after it because she's not had that toy for so long since breaking it.

Who defines what Gentle Parenting means anyway? The definition of a term lies in how it's usually used.

If the majority of parents who say they are Gentle Parenting are permissive, then Gentle Parenting IS permissive even if that's not what it's "supposed" to mean.

So if they were off sick or had forgotten or were struggling in general because something had happened at home or they're not academic and were too scared to ask for help the first time round, they'd get a detention? I'm so pleased my children go to schools that have empathy and respect for their students.

The more I read, the more I think ‘gentle’ parenting is an affectation that only the rich can afford.

If you break Barbie, we have a nice chat about feelings and then move on assumes that toys can be regularly rebought. Removing pens if you write on the wall is great when you get the decorators in every few years and redecorate etc

But I don’t think that breaking and destroying things should be condoned (even if chatted about). There should be serious consequences for them (I don’t mean beatings). The child should see that they have done something wrong and their parent is upset, not chatty!

Children won’t just respond to the message but to the tone. If the tone is really friendly and they have a nice one-to-one chat, that is actually a reward, not a consequence. Why wouldn’t they do the same again next time they felt bored?

I think the big thing for school is that children cannot each have individual negotiations and explanations. So raising children via negotiation etc doesn’t help them or the rest of their class when they will be in a situation where they do just need to follow an instruction. I have never wanted my children to be scared of me, but my boys do know that poor behaviour at school would disappoint me and don’t want that due to our relationship. They are both on the spectrum but still on the whole well behaved.,

This debate recurs on mumsnet often.

Gentle parenting advocates use the No True Scotsman logical fallacy all the time.

They say: xyz is gentle parenting.
We say: here are some examples/contexts where that doesn't work.
They say: ah BUT that isn't TRUE gentle parenting. Because abc.
We say: here are some other examples where abc also doesn't work.
They say: ah but THOSE aren't true gentle parenting either.

Rinse and repeat for 40 pages of thread.

Meanwhile as several pps have noticed, we see a correlation between gentle parenting families and overwrought parents (usually mums because the dads don't tend to bother with it as much) trying desperately to reconcile the absolutist rules of "gentle parenting" with their instincts to be firmer.

As others have said there’s a lot of confusion about what is meant by “gentle parenting”. I agree that a lot of people confuse “gentle” parenting with “permissive” parenting and a lack of boundaries.

That said I think there’s a knee jerk response on here and elsewhere that says: “gentle parenting is shit lazy parenting that raises spoiled and entitled brats” which is unhelpfully simple and binary.

I certainly think that having no boundaries or sanctions for children is counterproductive. Allowing the child’s whims to dictate the way things operate for the whole family or community is not good parenting. For example making everyone wait while a child undergoes yet another clothing change when they have been told they need to leave. This for me is permissive, indulgent parenting.

But if gentle parenting means trying not to shout or raise your voice unless absolutely necessary, not snapping at children, reasoning with them and trying to lead by example rather than taking a “do as I say not as I do” approach then I think there’s a lot to be said for it.

A child won’t respect a parent who is a total pushover but neither will they respect one who imposes arbitrary and punitive rules for the sake of them and allows no flexibility or discussion. Children and parents should not be in a state of perpetual antagonism.

To me the above is normal parenting and is time consuming with all the chat waffle but you put the time in there and then reduces what you need to do as they grow but other parents might..
Tell her to shut up crying, telling her that's what you get and throw the doll in the bin

@SingleandProud I'm not sure I know any parent who would react like that, that would be vile.

Yes, I agree, What you describe earlier in your post about explaining why it broke and how it made you feel, is just normal parenting- not gentle parenting.

@Catza ,

‘Teachers think that gentle parenting is hurting kids? And being scared of parents doesn’t? I find it very disturbing.’

I think maybe you should listen to teachers’ perspectives and maybe reflect on them. They know lots of children and have to manage behaviour on a daily basis.

As I explained to all my classes (until they knew me) teachers and pupils owe one another respect but it doesn’t mean the same thing as pupils are children and teachers are adult professionals.

I do agree that adults should explain things to children in an age appropriate way as well as instructing them, and that asking children to do pointless things is counterproductive, but there just isn’t time to explain every little thing and certainly not several times.

So, if I gave a class a starter of problems from something we had studied a few weeks ago, I would just expect them to do it and, if they didn’t, they would get a warning and then a detention in which they had to complete the problems. I wouldn’t feel the need to explain the pedagogy behind the lesson (although I did explain pedagogy from time to time to increase understanding and motivation).

There is a level of trust that children should have in adults which is a part of respect, in the same way an adult feels responsible for helping children solve problems. Mutual but not symmetrical.

I think it depends on how "gentle" the gentle parenting is.
I would say I gentle parent, but my children know that they will be in trouble for bad behaviour and certain behaviour is unacceptable.

As a general rule of thumb, we:
Don't use food as punishment
Listen to their explanation before getting angry (or try to)
Are consistent (no point punishment for xyz one day then letting them do it the next)
Don't make empty threats
Never use physical punishment
Try not to shout

We're definitely not perfect parents but for the most part, our kids are good kids and we haven't had any complaints from people about them yet knocks vehemently on wood

We have always taught our DS, providing you are polite and use your manners, you can always ask an adult why they are asking you to do something if you don't understand why or you feel uncomfortable.

No adult should be offended by an Inquisitive child asking why.

It is also good that kids learn they can question adults - (providing it's not just to be annoying 🤣🤣) it's not healthy for kids to grow up feeling they should always conform with an adults request regardless.

@tiggergoesbounce in the example you gave I don't think DD ever broke a toy but if she did and was upset, I would have labelled the emotion to give her the vocabulary

"Oh no,you are sad because you pulled too hard and barbies head came off and now you can't play with her"

Then I would have asked her for her solution to how we could fix the problem and then we would trial and error reasonable suggestions until it was fixed or guide her to a more appropriate outcome. Even if it means Barbie head is sellotaped on and then talked about what she was trying to do when she pulled too hard and demonstrated more appropriate play.

To me the above is normal parenting and is time consuming with all the chat waffle but you put the time in there and then reduces what you need to do as they grow. It shouldn't become necessary for teachers to have to explain everything as they get older as you should have laid the problem solving skills and personal responsibility assumption foundations down in the early years that they understand why they need to do something.

Other parents might take very different approaches
Tell her to shut up crying, even swear at her for wasting the money now the toy is broken, telling her that's what you get and throw the doll in the bin

A poorly gentle parent would just go and buy a new doll,not teaching problem solving or consequences.

I think gentle parenting is just a response to the "traditional parenting" that many of us grew up with, and now recognise as well meaning, but having essentially abusive aspects.

Obviously children have particular needs that adults don't, and aren't capable of making informed decisions.

But we would never think we should let a distressed partner "cry it out" to toughen them up, or tell them to respect our boundaries "because I say so" without wven trying to communicate why you have that boundary, if only because such an approach isn't likely to work.

We all want our kids to become the best adults they can be. We want them to be kind, thoughtful, empathetic, and independent.

We also need to keep them safe, and be able to get along in school etc. We also want to keep ourselves sane and have a bit of a life outside being a parent.

I hear you. I feel completely lost too and always feel like I'm getting it wrong. I'm sure that generations before us never spent as much time reading parenting guides and analysing their parenting.

I just keep going and keep reading and keep modifying. There is no 'right way' but there are better ways of course. And as soon as you think you've got something nailed, change is just around the corner... I think the overarching thing is just care. Care enough to want to do the right thing and I'm sure it will pay off. ❤️

Teachers think that gentle parenting is hurting kids? And being scared of parents doesn’t? I find it very disturbing. I think what they mean is that they find children inconvenient and don’t know how to reason with them beyond “because I said so”.
Children are no different from adults. They need boundaries but they also need to understand the underlying reasons for these boundaries in order to get on board with them. Children need to have respect for others and they learn it by following their parent’s example. If parents disrespect their children, how will they learn?
My parents were definitely authoritarian. I was scared of my dad because he was inconsistent and violent. I could get smacked for anything and everything without a warning. The boundaries were not explained to me. I was simply punished for doing something that displeased him even if I didn’t know I was doing something wrong. I stopped talking to my father when I was a teenager.
My mother had clear rules and boundaries. She was consistent. But, she would never explain her reasons. And I wanted to know even as a small child.
Now, as an adult, I very much want to know why I am being asked to do something. I am very lucky with my manager at work who always says “I need you to do XYZ, because…” not “here is some new procedure that doesn’t make any sense. Off you go”. Why would I treat my child any differently? At the end of the day, there will come a time when they will stop fearing me and then they will go off doing stupid shit because fReEdOm. I would much rather take time explain why the boundaries are what they are and hope it will serve them well as adults.
Shouting at a child because it takes them 20 minutes to put shoes on seems bizarre to me. I would like to understand why they are struggling with this activity and either resolve the barriers or give them more time to compete it the next time.

That's not gentle that's lazy

Sorry forgot to add - I'm not sure the accurate term for gentle parenting is being executed by my friend, I'm sure there must be more to it.