UK universities in trouble - why not add VAT to tuition?

Agree with shorter degrees where appropriate. And reducing the repayment rate.

Employers contributing to cost of training their future staff....not sure how that would work. They should just pay decent salaries.

And I don't agree that every student should get access to the same loans. Also feel strongly about grants for those from low income households but someone upthread said they get bursaries - which is as it should be.

Why would we want to charge our young people more money?
Many adults got a free degree.

Young people need to get out there and vote - get their voices heard!

Reading this with increasing disbelief. We as a nation need a highly educated workforce to succeed. A middle income just over the threshold for anything more than min loan household who struggled to support ds at an expoly( with better employment rates than the Russell group uni in the same city) how on earth is raising student loans and adding vat going to help. Students just won't go. We won't have teachers, health care staff, engineers etc. Yes apprenticeship sound fab on paper, degree apprenticeship are few and far between and are in general more competitive than medicine to get into. Wages for apprenticeship are often only £6.50 an hour so you have to fine one within commute of home fine if your in a city sh*t if your not. Very able academic dd is currently thinking she may not go she's a straight A student doing math, bio, chem, but the cost scared her to death, many of her friends say the same thing. All very bright but not affluent kids. We are about to loose their potential and need to fund this properly for all. I should add its made worse by seeing her scottish cousin with richer parents get a free degree. As we are supposedly one country this also needs addressing. For those of you saying part time job, she's tried all summer but there is nothing near us that is not filled by the semi retired or you need to be 18 for, so not until next July. My suggestion yes increase degree cost to support uni , give every adult the same amount, based on mimimum wage, paid back on the loan at the current Base rate only, not the current 7 to 8% charged. Reduce degree length to 2 years. (Completely possible for most degrees) Once working in a role that needs your degree ( with the exception of public sector, who just get a discount) your employer also contributes to paying of your loans at a set level of 3% above £25000 or equivalent for example. So costs covered, degrees shorter so less loan, appropriate ways of paying back and buisness contribution to cost of traing their staff. Unis better funded. Less economally viable degrees lost.

Why would we want to charge our young people more money?
Many adults got a free degree.

Young people need to get out there and vote - get their voices heard!

But why would anybody want to go to Iowa or any other obscure US uni as opposed to a perfectly good UK uni with safe funding that UK employers would have actually heard of.

US degrees are different too. Broader. Suits some but not everybody or all careers in the UK.

Also posted about the 100 or so UK students that go to Yale each year. Most likely wealthy but if a non-wealthy kid did get admission, they would be eligible for needs blind support up to full ride

University of Iowa was a random example as I know someone there on multiple scholarships - who is academically gifted.

Cost of attendance is exactly that - I mention that in another post. It is the same concept in most countries - tuition, board, books etc

And my posts always referred to academic giftedness and other (e.g. sport). However I do know that sport in the UK is often elitist unlike parts of the States

If it helps, we lived in the US, hubby went to university there and we still have family at uni there.

I'm not wrong. I live in the US, and for various reasons that I'm not going to go into here, I am very aware of how scholarships and financial aid work for both domestic and international students.

Tuition is not the same as "cost of attendance".

A student looking to go to Iowa on international student merit scholarships plus a patchwork of other scholarships (faculty merit, special interest, specific population/ heritage, etc) would be trying to 'enter by the eye of the needle' - and there would be no real reason to do so when there are better universities in the US and elsewhere.

The bottom line is that an international student at Iowa would have to come up with $50k-$54k every year. This number is the cost of attendance, which is comprised of tuition, plus room and board, plus required incidentals such as various fees and student health insurance. As you can see, cost of attendance is significantly higher than tuition alone.

Depending on cobbling together several scholarships wouldn't be a good idea unless the student was either very gifted academically or very reckless, or had the bank of mom and dad to fall back on if the scholarships went to someone else. If they came up short for whatever reason, the bursar would politely explain to them that without their check for the full amount owed per semester, enrollment wouldn't be possible.

If very brilliant, why not try to get into one of the half dozen or so universities that offer a full ride to the highly qualified international applicants they welcome, if family finances mean they otherwise wouldn't be able to attend? MIT, Harvard, Princeton...

I'm not wrong. I live in the US, and for various reasons that I'm not going to go into here, I am very aware of how scholarships and financial aid work for both domestic and international students.

Tuition is not the same as "cost of attendance".

A student looking to go to Iowa on international student merit scholarships plus a patchwork of other scholarships (faculty merit, special interest, specific population/ heritage, etc) would be trying to 'enter by the eye of the needle' - and there would be no real reason to do so when there are better universities in the US and elsewhere.

The bottom line is that an international student at Iowa would have to come up with $50k-$54k every year. This number is the cost of attendance, which is comprised of tuition, plus room and board, plus required incidentals such as various fees and student health insurance. As you can see, cost of attendance is significantly higher than tuition alone.

Depending on cobbling together several scholarships wouldn't be a good idea unless the student was either very gifted academically or very reckless, or had the bank of mom and dad to fall back on if the scholarships went to someone else. If they came up short for whatever reason, the bursar would politely explain to them that without their check for the full amount owed per semester, enrollment wouldn't be possible.

If very brilliant, why not try to get into one of the half dozen or so universities that offer a full ride to the highly qualified international applicants they welcome, if family finances mean they otherwise wouldn't be able to attend? MIT, Harvard, Princeton...

Well I think we all know current loans are linked to parental income. It’s a stupid system however better than the even stupider system of making parents shell out £80k for future adults as opposed to those adults getting loans they fund themselves.

£18k is not £70k.

I'm not wrong. I live in the US, and for various reasons that I'm not going to go into here, I am very aware of how scholarships and financial aid work for both domestic and international students.

Tuition is not the same as "cost of attendance".

A student looking to go to Iowa on international student merit scholarships plus a patchwork of other scholarships (faculty merit, special interest, specific population/ heritage, etc) would be trying to 'enter by the eye of the needle' - and there would be no real reason to do so when there are better universities in the US and elsewhere.

The bottom line is that an international student at Iowa would have to come up with $50k-$54k every year. This number is the cost of attendance, which is comprised of tuition, plus room and board, plus required incidentals such as various fees and student health insurance. As you can see, cost of attendance is significantly higher than tuition alone.

Depending on cobbling together several scholarships wouldn't be a good idea unless the student was either very gifted academically or very reckless, or had the bank of mom and dad to fall back on if the scholarships went to someone else. If they came up short for whatever reason, the bursar would politely explain to them that without their check for the full amount owed per semester, enrollment wouldn't be possible.

If very brilliant, why not try to get into one of the half dozen or so universities that offer a full ride to the highly qualified international applicants they welcome, if family finances mean they otherwise wouldn't be able to attend? MIT, Harvard, Princeton...

You are wrong. Again - there are multiple scholarships and funds that are available to international students.

Using the University of Iowa as an example - max university scholarship is $15k for international students. There are additional scholarships available depending on actually major - some up to $11k. In addition - as explained earlier, there are third party organisations that offer scholarships/grants. International tuition fees are circa $30k at UoI. Do your research

When I went to school in the UK - as an international student in med school - I paid my fees. However, I also accessed scholarships and funds from third parties because I researched it. My entire 3rd year was funded by a scholarship that involved writing a winning essay. I won 2 others that secured £1k and £2k separately.

I actually take pride in raising funds for education - not just for the money raised but the feeling of achievement they provide. It makes a young person feel they can do anything and their ideas are worth something in the world

Current loans are linked to parental income. And life chances of individuals are markedly determined by their parents - newsflash. More important factor than type of school for instance.

And many countries have models where parents save for university costs to set them up.

£100 a month per child would make a huge dent in that and summer jobs leading up to uni; the child gets to go to uni with little to no debt

Ridiculous.

The life chances of adults decided by parents they no longer live with.

Very few families now will be able to afford £70k per child when most are struggling to get on the housing ladder.

In my opinion - grants for those with low incomes (similar to say FSM, government determines what low income is). The others save for their kids to go. Government announce it so that those with kids from Year 3 downwards know they have to save for them to go if they want them to. So everyone has a minimum of 10 years to save and future generations have 18 years at least.

Loans available but not the types that you never pay back.

Apprenticeships and trade options made more widely available.
Universities allowed more leeway to set fees so they are not perpetually on the brink of bankruptcy but some legislation in place to ensure they are reasonable. International students very welcome but workforce plan in place to ensure there are enough places to support workforce needs for the UK (since internationals may go back to their countries or elsewhere).

There should be fewer universities and employers should recognise accredited apprenticeships as equivalent where appropriate.

For someone from a family with a household income of say £40k - going to university to obtain a degree that increases your value in the marketplace and coming out with little to no debt is more likely to improve social mobility than the current situation with degree inflation and no real added-value/differentiator to many of them

What happens to those whose parents can’t or won’t save £70k per child? The vast majority won’t with the cost of property, rental and the cost of living.

Then they don't really want an improvement. I don't see a choice because VAT on private schools, even if it raised £2billion, will not deliver the improvements required. We need more funding per student.

Your statement was not a paraphrase but you know that

The poster said she does not believe there should be tuition fees. Hence my response stating what I think would work better than no tuition fees, or even tuition fees with the current loan system

There are tuition fees and there is a loans system.