UK universities in trouble - why not add VAT to tuition?

What is an ITP?

I know, I am a senior manager at an ITP

I didn't say apprenticeships didn't exist. I said there weren't many. Even the nhs had stopped offering them in many areas because of the cost. Private employers don't have to offer them if they don't want to.

I was basing it on my mums training which she did when i was a child. The university students spent less time on the wards and were supernumerary when doing so when compared to those at nursing college doing the other course. It caused a bit of resentment at the time. It wasnt that i assumed they 'did the odd shift" now, as the routes to nursing changed a lot and it was never the odd shift anyway. But it was less than those doing the other course.

But tge point I was really trying to make was people are very keen for different institutions to not award degrees becsuse there are too msny universities and people doing degrees, but I can't see that providing a non degree nursing course is going to cost less. They need to learn the same stuff and it's not as if the old nursing routes were free to deliver training.

Agreed and they are massively under funded for the ITP too

I’m not sure my daughter would have got a place at Oxbridge and a subsequent First without 12 GCSEs at A ⭐️ and A grades and 4 ‘A’ levels at A ⭐️ and A grades, but the point I was making is that it isn’t only independent schools offering more than 8/9 GCSEs. Nor should it be.

Who ever thought HS2 was £29 billion - not sure what planet you are on. It was well over £100 billion. And, guess what, some of it’s being built! London to Birmingham and that’s estimated at up to £65 billion now and they cannot afford to get it to Euston. It was Labour’s big idea! Bigger fools them

You need to read what was written, before hitting that keyboard - the cancelled section of HS2 meant a loss of £29 billion, thats what was spent on it..... money down the drain.

Labour haven't been in power for 14 years, first spades went in the ground under the Tories, so whilst i agree it was stupid idea (all of it) it was the Cons who signed it off and spent billions on this white elephant.

They may push them but they will need to sort out a horrendous situation. The apprenticeship situation is dire. It’s harder to get an apprenticeship than get into a uni a lot of the time and they cost.

As long as you don’t mind your nurse, midwife, psychological wellbeing practitioner, child’s teacher having a diploma instead of a degree and your child or grandchildren being treated by a lesser-qualified speech and language therapist or CAMHS worker and as long as you don’t mind driving over bridges designed by lesser-qualified engineers, I’m sure it will all work out for the best.

Ha ha ha.
Some of the 'ex- polytechnics' or ex-colleges offer really practical and useful degree courses!

An ITP could get accreditation for doing them if they had suitably qualified staff. The Apprenticeships do exist and Labour will be pushing them to help the recruitment crisis in NHS and teaching

There aren't hardly any apprenticeships for any of them now including nursing. Most employers found them too costly. Plus, they still require universities and if they shut, then do will the apprenticeships.

I think it’s been explained over and again why VAT on unis is a ridiculous idea.

Apprenticeships are extremely hard to get and there aren’t many.

NVQs don't exist any more and there ARE Apprenticeships for some of these.
On a personal level I don't agree with taxation of any education, my point is that Labour claim private schools are businesses, well then so are universities. If you take that argument forwards then university fees should be subject to VAT.

Engineers, research scientists, pharmacists,dieticians, vets, veterinary nurses…..

the list is endless.

Teachers
Occupational therapists
Speech and language therapists
Nurses
Midwives
Psychological wellbeing practitioners
Unless you would prefer all the above to have NVQs?

Great idea! Not.Fewer students so less income for unis and even better for richer families.

Agreed. And often they are non-academic subjects just taken to increase the overall number. And sometimes students get average grades when they could get better ones if they did fewer subjects. I agree it’s quality/depth not quantity. I reckon bright kids can do 9-10 max but any more is a bit silly.

Student nurses do long placements on wards and in the community now. I don’t know where people get the idea that they spend most of their time at university and do the occasional shift on the wards.

Nobody needs 12 GCSEs. Literally no university needs this. Just like with four A Levels (with the possible exception of further maths). Better to have 8/9 at top grades and to have spent the rest of the time on sport/arts/debating/public speaking etc

The VAT would go to the government though so I don’t see your logic here.

My daughter went to an average state school and did 12 GCSEs. I have also worked in both sectors and in my experience, independent schools offer fewer GCSEs - and pay teachers less.

University is free in most European countries, so England and Wales are hardly appealing as an option because of fees, without VAT on top.

The problem is that fees are too low. We need fee deregulation so that universities can charge commercially appropriate prices for their courses.

The government didn’t want to fund them, but now wants them to charge unreasonably low prices. Can’t have it both ways.

I don’t think many on this thread work in university management. It’s full of complete nonsense.

reality is we need increased tuition fees and unfortunately some consolidation in the market.