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AIBU?

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AIBU to feel betrayed?

43 replies

Shuckaduck · 08/08/2024 21:42

I’ve been in my current job for just under 4 yrs - I was promoted to manager within a very small firm (just 4 members of staff consisting of 2 (married) directors, and 2 employees) just a few months after starting.
It’s been made aware that the owner of the company is wanting to sell up and retire soon. Last year I was given the option of buying and taking over the business, but after some soul searching my husband and I decided that we didn’t want to take on that much financial burden and responsibility.
Fast forward to three weeks ago when my boss sits me down and tells me that by the end of this year it’s possible that there will no longer be a job for me. My colleague (the other employee) has taken him up on his offer of taking over the company and it will probably be a case of him having to take on someone to replace him in his current position (so that he can effectively run the business) and his wife will take over my job. I understand that it is all about money, and it may not be financially viable to keep me on, but I can’t help feeling a huge sense of betrayal. I loved my job and felt such a sense of loyalty to the company, especially as we were so close knit, that it feels almost alien now that I’m there but not feeling as though I’m part of the team. I’m constantly feeling teary and upset, which I don’t want to do in front of them.
My current boss has made an offer to me which makes me think that he’s trying to be fair - he has said that if I find a job and want to leave, he will effectively ‘make me redundant’ so that I will get a redundancy payment. But I still feel upset and find it hard to be proactive in my job, acting like everything is ok.
AIBU?

OP posts:
New posts on this thread. Refresh page
Poddledoddle · 13/08/2024 12:40

This is really unfair OF you. They made you an offer, you declined. They haven't betrayed you, they've been really generous offering you redundancy.

WindsurfingDreams · 13/08/2024 12:11

Bannedontherun · 08/08/2024 22:12

Strictly speaking when someone buys out a company (even if they are an existing employee) TUPE applies. This is Transfer of Undertakings (Protection of Employment).

You can find details of your TUPE rights on ACAS website.

So the potential new owner can not just replace you with his wife.

It sounds like the current boss and the soon to be new owner knows this (as they no doubt would have had legal advice regarding the sale and transfer of the business),

The new owner probably does not want to incur the cost of making you redundant so the pair of them are hoping to shunt you out the door before the company is transferred.

The verbal promise of a redundancy payment should you find another job is smoke and mirrors.

So yes you are being betrayed.

What to do?

There is little point in asserting your TUPE rights as there is a breach of trust.

Arm yourself with your rights per ACAS and tell your current boss he better pay you off right now a reasonable amount to compensate you, or you will see them in a tribunal. (That would be whoever owns the business when you leave.

Yes, take the emotions out of it - you need an employment lawyer not Mumsnet

stichguru · 13/08/2024 10:40

For those saying "if a business is sold I would expect to lose my job". Yes maybe, but then it should be redundancy because when the business is sold, they no-longer need the workers.

stichguru · 13/08/2024 10:37

I would contact ACAS for advice. If your job is going because the business is folding (and then opening again under a different name), I would have thought you should have been made redundant from the folding business, because that role in that business was redundant. If the business is re-branding but not folding (therefore no redundancies), then I have thought that they would have to let you keep the role.

Sweetteaplease · 13/08/2024 10:17

Shuckaduck · 09/08/2024 07:19

Honestly? I (naively) thought that I’d be able to continue working for whoever the new owner would be. It never crossed my mind when I was considering taking over that I wouldn’t keep on the other member of staff.

Sorry OP but that is hugely naive. I would expect if a business is sold, I would lose my job

LexyVan · 13/08/2024 10:13

From a legal standpoint they can’t just give your role to someone else. They could be sneaky and create a new role with a different title and responsibilities and make your role redundant. Once they make your role redundant, they can’t rehire for the exact same role for some time (I think 2 years).
So, the new owner would need to start a redundancy process either way, the way I see it. Unless they go out of their way to find a way to show poor performance and use that rute.
But essentially they can just say “will hire someone else do your job going forward”.

VEP · 13/08/2024 07:32

speak to ACAS re TUPE rights, i'm sure they can't just replace you but not sure if they can get rid of your position and make you redundant for which you would get redundancy, although that won't be much
you said that he would put his wife in your role and he would be replacing himself? I would maybe speak to the new owner (after speaking to ACAS), just to find out what his plans are for the future and does he see you in them? They may restructure or something.

Has all this information come from your current boss or have you spoke to the colleague also?

Houseofpainjumparound · 13/08/2024 07:07

Business is ruthless.....

Find out if what they are doing is lawful (I agree I think it breaches TUPE)

You don't want to stay, understandable, but use this to your advantage.

If they are not acting lawfully (they may change your job scope or title to allow wife to take it on to get round the rule, which I think breaches TUPE as well) then work out what your reduancy would be and then ask for more..... have in mind what you would take as lowest offering, and go much higher, using the breach of TUPE (if breach is correct) as leverage

They have no loyalty to you, so have none to them, be ruthless.

TimetoPour · 09/08/2024 19:03

Shuckaduck · 09/08/2024 10:11

From what I can gather, the business is being taken on as it is currently. They will be continuing with the same business name (brand), with customers receiving and expecting the same service that they have currently (and have had for the past 10 years). I don’t think much is expected to change…

This is this problem. The business is being taken over by a couple who can distribute your duties amongst other members of staff, including themselves. They do not need someone in this specific role to make the company work and are therefore able to make your role redundant.

People are making out like your current boss is doing something on the sly, which is completely wrong. Even if he Tupe’s you over, the new owners are still legally able to make you redundant if your role is not viable. It sounds more like he appreciates your service and is trying to give you an earlier opportunity to find another job and give you an extra pay off at the same time. If he gives you an official offer of redundancy now you are no better off. The idea is you get a pay off and more notice- not try and sneak you out the door quietly. He is trying to help you

togethernessoneness · 09/08/2024 12:25

yabu

to turn down the offer as it was NOT financially beneficial for you and your dh; and then to be SHOCKED whoever decided to take over the business is NOW making decisions which ARE financially beneficial for he and his wife, is very disingenuous. and then the word 'betrayal. seriously!!!??

seriesoffortunateevents · 09/08/2024 11:02

Shuckaduck · 09/08/2024 10:11

From what I can gather, the business is being taken on as it is currently. They will be continuing with the same business name (brand), with customers receiving and expecting the same service that they have currently (and have had for the past 10 years). I don’t think much is expected to change…

I’m afraid you need to know the terms of the sale in regards employees. You also need to know if the wife will be paid , or just director dividends and if the role is exactly as yours is.

Shuckaduck · 09/08/2024 10:11

From what I can gather, the business is being taken on as it is currently. They will be continuing with the same business name (brand), with customers receiving and expecting the same service that they have currently (and have had for the past 10 years). I don’t think much is expected to change…

OP posts:
BarHumbugs · 09/08/2024 09:52

seriesoffortunateevents · 09/08/2024 09:50

I’m sure if it comes to it, she will be formally offered redundancy, they need to go through the process.

Offering to bung her some money if she finds another job doesn't sound like someone who is going to go through the process.

seriesoffortunateevents · 09/08/2024 09:50

BarHumbugs · 09/08/2024 09:44

Yes, but OP has not formally been offered redundancy, there was no suggestion that the company was being would up and just the assets sold and it was confirmed that her position would still exist once the company had been sold so they are no going about it the right way. From the link you shared: A TUPE-related dismissal will be automatically unfair except in limited circumstances such as genuine redundancy. Where redundancy arises, failure to include your existing staff in the selection process (where appropriate) may also make those redundancies unfair.

I’m sure if it comes to it, she will be formally offered redundancy, they need to go through the process.

Shuckaduck · 09/08/2024 09:49

Thank you all for taking the time to voice your opinions. Ok, maybe ‘betrayed’ was a bit too dramatic a word, but I can’t help feeling a bit lost as I was originally in a very tight team - now I kind of feel like I’m on the outside looking in as I’m no longer one of the team (or won’t be for much longer). This doesn’t affect how I do my job, I’m too professional to let that happen, but I can’t say it doesn’t hurt.
I’ve been reading conflicting information about whether or not what is happening is lawful - I think I’d have to get professional advice on this to really know. But again, I honestly don’t think I want to battle to stay in a job where the trust dynamics have gone awry. I just want to be treated fairly and with the compassion I feel I deserve and have earned in my time here.

OP posts:
BarHumbugs · 09/08/2024 09:44

seriesoffortunateevents · 09/08/2024 09:39

Honestly if you’re not legally trained on this. Then mr google isn’t going to help you. However if you insist on going there.

you need to know the terms of the sale but one hundred percent employees can be excluded in many scenarios, and redundancy apply

surely you know this, many big companies ger sold and people made redundant. They can also change the terms of the role,ie merge it into something else.differing responsibilities.

https://www.employmentsolicitor.com/employees-asset-sales-stay-go/

www.gov.uk/transfers-takeovers

Yes, but OP has not formally been offered redundancy, there was no suggestion that the company was being would up and just the assets sold and it was confirmed that her position would still exist once the company had been sold so they are no going about it the right way. From the link you shared: A TUPE-related dismissal will be automatically unfair except in limited circumstances such as genuine redundancy. Where redundancy arises, failure to include your existing staff in the selection process (where appropriate) may also make those redundancies unfair.

seriesoffortunateevents · 09/08/2024 09:39

Honestly if you’re not legally trained on this. Then mr google isn’t going to help you. However if you insist on going there.

you need to know the terms of the sale but one hundred percent employees can be excluded in many scenarios, and redundancy apply

surely you know this, many big companies ger sold and people made redundant. They can also change the terms of the role,ie merge it into something else.differing responsibilities.

https://www.employmentsolicitor.com/employees-asset-sales-stay-go/

www.gov.uk/transfers-takeovers

Employees in asset sales - do they stay or do they go? - EmploymentSolicitor.com

Buyers often assume that by buying the assets of a business, they can take the best bits and leave the rest behind.  Thanks to the ... Read More

https://www.employmentsolicitor.com/employees-asset-sales-stay-go

anon4net · 09/08/2024 08:53

Start documenting conversations related to any change in role/being let go/employment of wife. I am certain that you can't let someone go to replace them with someone else without needing careful compensation. Please seek legal advice.

FrangipaniBlue · 09/08/2024 08:39

The new owners will make the role redundant because they are not needed.

The role is needed though because OP has said that the new owners wife is going to be doing it, so no, the role is not redundant AFTER the sale. Even if they claimed the owners wifes role was a new one they'd have to demonstrate that it was substantially different to the OPs and that OP didn't have the skills to do it. Redundancy isn't just about the pay off it's also about whether you offer people reasonable alternatives to the role which is being made redundant.

It MIGHT be redundant BEFORE the sale if as people have pointed out, the owners are only buying the assets and not the business as a going concern, which I doubt is the case because nowhere has the OP said the business is being wound up. There are also rules around doing this too.

Even if that was the case the OPs current employer has to FORMALLY offer her redundancy not "if you find another job I'll pay you redundancy". That's not how employment rights work.

TimetoPour · 09/08/2024 08:14

FrangipaniBlue · 08/08/2024 22:25

I was going to say exactly the same as @Bannedontherun

They can't just replace you, you have rights as you've been employed more than 2 years.

They can only make you redundant if your job no longer exists, which it clearly does if the new owners wife will doing it.

What you want is a golden handshake settlement agreement with suitable financial compensation.

They absolutely can. The new owners will make the role redundant because they are not needed. They then have other members of staff in different roles absorb some of the duties.

The current owner has given the OP an extra heads up so she is not blindsided once the sale takes place. She now has the offer to take a redundancy pay out and 6 months+ to look for a job rather than a shorter notice period. This seems like they are trying to be fair.

OP it is not a personal thing. You were given the same opportunity and turned it down. This couple are obviously going to want do the best for their new business. It has obviously come as a shock to you and I don’t blame you. It’s almost a form of grief. Try to look forward though. The company will never be the same when run by someone else. You will find something better in the future.

seriesoffortunateevents · 09/08/2024 08:14

BarHumbugs · 09/08/2024 07:59

No they can't. The business will continue as before and her position is not being made redundant so they are trying to avoid their legal responsibilities.

I worked in m&a, I can categorically assure you in an asset sale they can.

Edingril · 09/08/2024 08:11

It's not a charity, betrayal is a bit dramatic what we're expecting?

Pipsquiggle · 09/08/2024 08:10

BarHumbugs · 09/08/2024 07:59

No they can't. The business will continue as before and her position is not being made redundant so they are trying to avoid their legal responsibilities.

@BarHumbugs
I guess this is the crux of it though.
We don't know the Ts & C's of the sale.
They might buy the assets and customer list but wind up the company, pivot, rebrand and follow a different business model.

As long as the seller and buyer follow their legal requirements of the sale (which may or may not have obligations to OP) then they can do what they like.

BarHumbugs · 09/08/2024 07:59

seriesoffortunateevents · 09/08/2024 07:50

Yes they can, as this is a sale, and it would seem an asset only sale (inc customers as an asset) so employees not Included, which is why the current owner can legally offer redundancy.

No they can't. The business will continue as before and her position is not being made redundant so they are trying to avoid their legal responsibilities.

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