Maximizing chances of GCSE grades at 8/9 is essential

Yes and a 4 is now a pass. So it’s roughly equivalent to a 4/low 5.

I have O levels and the top grade was an A. But the letter GCSEs went to A star - roughly equivalent to 8/9; the top end of a 9 is meant to be a higher level still.

I thought someone would say that. Not sure how? In my day the top grade was A. C was the equivalent of an old O Level or GCE pass. Anything below C was the equivalent of a CSE. Basically we saw C as a 'pass'.

No, high grades are not essential.
You need a higher grade if you are studying a subject for a' level.

It's all about school tables and ratings.

Just like SATS in year 6 have no benefit to the child AT ALL, just school league tables. What year 6 pupils have to put up with for the sake of sats is a disgrace.

@Rumors1 yes, very true, 6 subjects including Maths would be a differentiator. Previously AS results listed the scores so that was taken into account when making offers, which reduced the volume of applications for most competitive courses. Another difference seems to be that in Ireland most students study locally which is rarer here (but becoming more popular due to costs)

Also how does Ireland apply weighing for contextual factors/diversity? Is that done pre or post results?

I know many non uk parents find the UK focus on 3 or 4 subjects too limited but it might not be popular with many students if they were forced fo study Maths up to 18.

@Pleasealexa do you think that is because you have to do so few subjects at A levels?
I think it would be quite manageable to get top marks in 3 subjects but much harder to get tops marks in 6. I just checked the breakdown for 2024 and only 1.6% of students who sat the leaving cert got full marks. We therefore don't have an issue with too many people scoring top grades. In fact if you do in Ireland you are likely to make the news!!
We also have to do math for leaving cert and a lower level of math is allocated fewer points so if you are not good at math you are going to struggle to get into top courses.

Great post @MrsAvocet and just what I think. Ds2’s grade 6 in Eng lit will never hold him back I’m sure, but making him work to gain an 8 would not have been a good experience for anyone. He also got offers from all his uni choices inc RG and RG+

Interesting thread as I have a DS going into year 11. Sounds like a similar academic level to the OPs DS. 8/9s for maths and geography, his favourite subjects are achievable targets, also probably for music, but need to work at getting 7s for the others. Although this is a school where is is common to get 7-9s.
I'd be happy if he can achieve that.

I don't think people are saying that GCSE grades don't matter or that Universities don't look at them. Aside from anything else, schools are unlikely to predict high A level grades for a pupil with a raft of 4s and 5s at GCSE and if they did I would imagine there would need to be some strong mitigating circumstances to explain it or admissions tutors would be very sceptical.
But the OP is not asking about the difference between 10 9s and 5 4s. Her son sounds to be heading for very creditable set of results and in reality, for most people, with most aspirations, a bunch of mainly 7s with a couple of 8s /9s is not going to close many doors. Unless he has his eyes on a few specific destinations he is not likely to need a full set of 9s at GCSE. A 7 at GCSE will be more than enough to get you onto an A level course in most 6th forms which is the most important thing (assuming he wants to do A levels of course.)
For some subjects, maths in particular, some extra tuition to get higher than that would probably be advantageous, not because the grade on the certificate changes anything but because starting the A level course with fewer weaknesses in the GCSE material maximises your chances of achieving well at A level.
If 8s and 9s can be achieved with a sensible amount of additional effort/help and the student is motivated to do that then great, that obviously makes sense, at least for the subjects planned for A level. But I don't believe that the " all 9s at any cost" attitude you see sometimes is healthy. Some people are talking as if 7s are failure. That's nonsense and can be very damaging to young people who are conditioned to see it that way.
Tutoring has it's place. My DS who has just done his A levels has had a maths tutor. He's hoping to do an engineering degree and whilst he's good at the mechanics side of maths his pure is less strong and he really struggles with stats. He has willingly given up one of his hobbies to have maths tutoring and also formed a study group with friends. His choice, as he can see that the short term pain will hopefully (we'll see next week!) bring long term gain. But had I engaged the services of an English tutor at GCSE in an attempt to boost his grade from 7 to 8 and made him stop a hobby to do so, I really don't think it would have been worth it. It may even have made matters worse and would definitely have made him less happy. Nobody gives a toss that he's not quite as good at English as he is at physics. His GCSEs demonstrate that he's a good all rounder with some particular strengths and he had offers from all the Universities he applied to. That's plenty good enough for him and it would be for most people. There will be a few, very specific courses, where very high GCSE results may make the difference between getting an offer or not, but that's not the case for the majority of pupils and I don't believe it is worth sacrificing general well being.

Just remembering that a friend of DS's was rejected from LSE due to his GCSE grades.

@Rumors1 Irish system seems more straightforward but I think the issue for UK is the staggering amount of applications for top courses, which means Unis can't offer to everyone who secure the top grades.

At Cambridge/Oxford/Imperial they would expect every student to have max grades so they have to find a way to select using pre Uni testing/,interviews and GCSEs. It's all in the mix to decide who gets a place.

Some do, some don't. Where my son works (one of the UK's largest insurance firms), ALL the interns (what they call the year 3 work placement uni students) in his department starting last Summer were from the same University. Most of the graduate intake last Summer was split between two universities (Bath and Lancaster). That can't be accidentally nor random! Fair enough with the "year in industry" interns as the employer probably worked with the Uni directly to choose their intake (sometimes the Uni are highly engaged in the process) to save recruitment time and effort, especially for the one year work experience. But in my son's case as a graduate, there was no input from his Uni, he found the job himself (not via the Uni), applied directly, etc., and then was surprised to find others from the same Uni in his intake (different years, different courses). His Uni isn't one of those who have close links with employers, I know some are very close but not his, they don't arrange work experience nor proper jobs themselves - their careers dept is all about job searching skills, application skills, etc.

Spoke to DS a few days ago now that they have a new intake of interns and graduates starting this Summer. All the interns are again from the same university (not the same last year) and most of the graduates are again from the same two universities (Lancaster and Bath!). The employer clearly has a bias in favour of those two universities, I'm trying to work out why and how, but failing to see any parallels! One of the new graduates is actually one of his old flatmates who's taken a year out after graduating and only applied there because my son recommended him to apply, so again, not due to the Uni itself!

Not saying all graduates are from the same two unis - some are from random others, but there's definitely a pattern and bias there, which kind of suggests they're not applying a "blind" application process.

I used to think that the Irish system of achieving a certain amount of points in your Leaving Cert to get into uni was a bad system until I read this thread!

In Ireland, all universities/colleges allocate a number of points for each course. You sit a minimum of 7 subjects and get points for each grade, you add your best 6 grades to get the total number of points. If you reach the points needed for the selected course you get it (points can increase if big demand but it isnt usually by much).
No one gives a fiddlers about what your Junior Cert (GSCE equivalent) grades were. Yes its pressure in the Leaving Cert years (5th and 6th year) but its much less pressure on children when they are only 15.

As long as they get what they need a happy teen is more important then grades . I was told a horrific tale about someone whose parents put them under pressure to get top grades (olden days so o levels). They had a breakdown at 17 and committed suicide at 21. I got a D in a level maths now have 2 maths degrees and a career in maths my grade never held me up no one cares once you move onto the next education level

You will pay a high price for pressurising a child.
I know plenty of friends children who have NOT been to “top universities” who are independent with great jobs. How they come across at interview (articulate, maturity, work experience ) matters a lot more than the name of a uni.

3rd option....
The child and their mental health is higher priority than their grades.
Yr 11 is tough. Look after the child rather than destroying them for the higher grade

ZThe grades they say is not the same as the successful applicants will have.

That would be fabulous, I really hope most employers do!

For a different perspective, the ideal is for your DC to try their best and achieve their potential. This does not mean huge stress and pressure, but consistency and positivity. It is very satisfying to have worked hard and tried your best - and a hell of a lot more satisfying than sleeping into midday and lying in bed watching Netflix. So yes, aim for 8s and 9s rather than 7s. It is motivating to go for 8s and 9s, rather than settle for 7s.

My DC did GCSE this year and had two tutors - one for their worst subject to get up to a 5 - but also for their best subject as they enjoy it and there is a satisfaction in being really fantastic at something. That is why great sports people and musicians have coaches.

The tutoring was not stressful. It is a huge privilege to have such individualised attention to help you achieve your potential. No matter how universities grade your results, trying your best is a key life lesson.

@thing47 I change my username all the time but hopefully after next week it will be a WarwickYes! I completely agree that Durham is not as good for Econ and DC1 went to Durham and quite frankly was incredibly disappointed. They felt unsupported by their personal tutor, not listened to as a whole cohort for the subject and according to the students in the years above has been going on for years. Dc and mates didn't want to fill in feedback forms before they got their degree results for obvious reasons. Fingers crossed for Warwick for us, I hope DC2 has a better time.

Yes, this is what I thought as per my previous post, ie the top universities DO look at GCSE results.

MN seems to love Durham, but it is no more of a 'top' university than Warwick. Overall the only metric in which Durham outscores Warwick is, ironically, entry standards. In research quality, student satisfaction and graduate prospects, Warwick is ahead.

As for economics specifically, Warwick stands above Durham in the CUG. @DurhamNo I think you should change your username to WarwickYes, there's nothing super-special about Durham whatever it might like to think!

@Royalmail100

There is a difference between getting a child a tutor to help them in a couple of subjects where they are really struggling and getting a child a tutor to push grades up from 7s to 8s and 9s. This is the kind of pushing and pressurising that does real damage to children.

Of course some children will need extra help. Of course I understand that teachers are overstretched and have too many children in front of them to offer the individualised support some of them need - I am one. I am not against tutoring - I do it myself sometimes when I’m asked by a desperate parent. What I am against is parents booking up every night of the week with additional tutoring for children who don’t really need it and are already doing perfectly well, but whose parents believe nothing but a string of 9s will do. Unfortunately this is quite a common practice amongst certain groups of parents and I have seen the damage it causes their children.

As a teacher I will always advocate for the mental health and well-being of a child above anything else. Some parents do unfortunately lose sight of that when it comes to buying into the ‘my child’s life will be over if they don’t get into a top uni’ narrative.

It's not so much 'top unis' as 'specific top, vastly oversubscribed courses' which may need to use GCSEs if they're not administering additional aptitude tests.

@clary yes it was shocking to us too sadly Economics is the subject he absolutely loves and he didn't want any other finance combination.

@Rainydayinlondon Warwick was his first choice but Durham was a close second and because it was Economics he knew all of it was a long shot due to how popular it was. Luckily Durham was his only rejection. I believe top unis do look at GCSEs because those are the only exams they have all sat to the same standard and give part of the predicted grades, teacher comments on their personal statements.

Yes, this is what I thought as per my previous post, ie the top universities DO look at GCSE results. I’m so sorry your son didn’t get his first choice, especially with such stellar results, but I understand Warwick is amazing for Economics!

Both of mine took the scenic route through education - one at a special school and one with home tutors - so did not have the opportunity to do the number or breadth of GCSE's that mainstream schools offer. We told them that as long as they had sufficient at good enough grades to be allowed to go to the next stage then that was enough. As soon as you get your A levels / or HND or successfully complete your apprentice then this is going to be more important to prospective employers than GCSE performance.