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AIBU?

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Wedding Photographer Cancellation - unreasonable?

206 replies

Bunny44 · 07/08/2024 21:46

AIBU to think this is greedy and unreasonable of the photographer?

My sister was due to get married this summer however 7 months before the wedding her fiancé unexpectedly broke up with her, which she was devastated about. She was also left to deal with cancelling the wedding vendors. To alleviate the burden on my sister, me and my family have been helping her with it all. I wanted some advice and thoughts specifically on the photographer.

She booked them a year ago and put down a £500 deposit. When they were informed of the cancellation (straight away 7 months out) they weren’t very nice about it and basically said she’d lose the deposit (somewhat expected) but that their policy was to insist on the full payment of £1800 for any dates less than 9 months out as they said wouldn’t be able to re-book the date and they had no exceptions.

We exchanged some curt emails in which we underlined several CMA policies including that they must re-advertise the date and try and get a booking and if failing that they could re-coupe for possible losses where reasonable. They said they would do that and we didn’t hear from them.

My sister’s friends took her away for her would-be wedding date to take her mind off it. The photographer emails her on the would-be wedding day with the invoice saying they’d not been able to book and needed payment, which she was obviously extremely upset about. Personally I cannot believe the lack of tact! Considering the industry they work in surely they understand how upsetting this sort of situation can be. It makes me think they really really don’t care about the couples they are dealing with. I did call him and told him to stop messaging my sister and really he didn't seem like a nice man at all.

I worked out that he must make at least £200k+ out of this business a year based on rough dates he said he was booked up for the year. Surely they have some leniency than to insist someone forks up such a large amount for him to do nothing with so much notice, he’d already be getting £500 out of her. Seems incredibly greedy.

As a side note, I should mention I’m a small business owner myself and have a rental property for short term lets. I have built into my business model cancellations with reasonable notice because it’s just part of doing business. I’m a bit shocked about the T&Cs in the wedding industry. I think a lot of couples just agree because they’re naive and caught up in the moment and they get taken advantage of.

Any advice on fighting this also welcome, if you think we should.

OP posts:
CandyLeBonBon · 08/08/2024 07:33

MultiplaLight · 08/08/2024 07:10

I would ignore any emails from him.

What a grabby twat.

I wouldn't ignore emails. I'd be replying saying that their request is in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015 and the Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977 and they will not be paying anything over and above the deposit already paid.

If the supplier takes them to court I think they would be in a strong position to argue that The request is unfair 'if, contrary to the requirement of good faith, it causes a significant imbalance in the parties' rights and obligations arising under the contract, to the detriment of the consumer'– Regulation 5(1). Unfair terms are not enforceable against the consumer.

Furthermore If a consumer believes a contract contains an unfair term they can complain to the Competition and Markets Authority (CMA) or to one of several consumer-related organisations that can act against unfair consumer contracts. Such a complaint may lead to court action.

It’s worth pushing back on, and replying to the photographer is definitely advised, rather than ignoring.

Fargo79 · 08/08/2024 07:24

rwalker · 08/08/2024 05:15

I think it’s completely shit
but also she did actually agree to pay in these circumstances when she signed the contract
the terms were laid out in black and white . If she thought that it was unfair then the time to point this out was then . If she didn’t like the t’s and c’s she shouldn’t of signed

This isn't how it works. The contract is either legally binding and enforceable or it's not. If it's unfair and unenforceable, it doesn't matter that she signed it originally; she isn't bound by it.

OP it sounds like the terms may be unfair and it's probably worth just ignoring him but if you want complete peace of mind then it's worth a quick chat with a consumer advice organisation or a legal professional to show them the contract.

Edingril · 08/08/2024 07:24

No he is not unreasonable to demand what is in the contract is honoured

The court may feel differently of course

dontstopmenowimhavingagoodtime · 08/08/2024 07:24

Whatevershallidowithmylife · 08/08/2024 06:50

It probably isn’t likely he’d been be to get another booking given people book so far in advance-7 months is nothing. Morally- entirely different story but ultimately that’s what pays his mortgage etc.

But why does that mean he can get 100% profit for a cancelled day?

He's had zero outlay, no work, no travel, no materials, no wear and tear on equipment.

Just 100% profit.

Greedy.

Bunny44 · 08/08/2024 07:20

CandyLeBonBon · 08/08/2024 07:19

I'm a wedding photographer OP, and since Covid, rulings on this sort of thing have become a lot more in favour of the customer.

It is reasonable to lose a deposit (although even then, there have been many disputes won by couples in court claiming that deposits should not be kept) but 7 months before the date, expecting that sort of payment, is absolutely taking the piss. Of course they can fill the date - I often get couples searching for photographers with less than a year before their wedding.

What is the wording in the contract?

Even with a solid contract in place, Clients may argue that a non-refundable deposit is unfair if their circumstances change or if the terms are unfair.

Obviously I'm not a judge/lawyer but based on personal experience, I believe the terms that your sisters photographer has outlined could easily be considered as unfair in a small claims court (I've seen this happen personally with just a deposit) so I'd get her to respond as such,

I'd be looking at the contract first to determine the actual terms outlined. Then I'd be considering their enforceability based on the consumer act 2015 and unfair contract act 1977.

Ok thank you that's very helpful.

OP posts:
CandyLeBonBon · 08/08/2024 07:19

I'm a wedding photographer OP, and since Covid, rulings on this sort of thing have become a lot more in favour of the customer.

It is reasonable to lose a deposit (although even then, there have been many disputes won by couples in court claiming that deposits should not be kept) but 7 months before the date, expecting that sort of payment, is absolutely taking the piss. Of course they can fill the date - I often get couples searching for photographers with less than a year before their wedding.

What is the wording in the contract?

Even with a solid contract in place, Clients may argue that a non-refundable deposit is unfair if their circumstances change or if the terms are unfair.

Obviously I'm not a judge/lawyer but based on personal experience, I believe the terms that your sisters photographer has outlined could easily be considered as unfair in a small claims court (I've seen this happen personally with just a deposit) so I'd get her to respond as such,

I'd be looking at the contract first to determine the actual terms outlined. Then I'd be considering their enforceability based on the consumer act 2015 and unfair contract act 1977.

Bunny44 · 08/08/2024 07:18

Whatevershallidowithmylife · 08/08/2024 06:50

It probably isn’t likely he’d been be to get another booking given people book so far in advance-7 months is nothing. Morally- entirely different story but ultimately that’s what pays his mortgage etc.

The venue was rebooked though 5 months out so clearly people do organise wedding at less notice.

OP posts:
Bunny44 · 08/08/2024 07:16

marshlellow · 08/08/2024 06:58

When they were informed of the cancellation (straight away 7 months out) they weren’t very nice about it and basically said she’d lose the deposit (somewhat expected)

What do you mean they weren't very nice about it? If all they did is explain she'd lose the deposit that's perfectly fair enough.

I mean my sister originally contacted them to say about cancelling the wedding and rather say oh I'm so sorry about that he was really grumpy with her and went straight to how they'd have to pay everything anyway...

OP posts:
Bunny44 · 08/08/2024 07:13

rwalker · 08/08/2024 05:15

I think it’s completely shit
but also she did actually agree to pay in these circumstances when she signed the contract
the terms were laid out in black and white . If she thought that it was unfair then the time to point this out was then . If she didn’t like the t’s and c’s she shouldn’t of signed

Obviously she, like most people, didn't think the relationship would end. My point is that wedding prices are sky high and the cancellation policies punitive compared to other similar services in other industries.

OP posts:
LlynTegid · 08/08/2024 07:13

Sazza463 · 07/08/2024 22:36

I think they are being very unreasonable and I’d be livid at the cheek of it. The loss of the deposit should be enough compensation. I would ignore and see what they do. However, whether you have to pay will depend on the terms you agreed. If they keep chasing you could offer a goodwill payment in exchange for not sharing your story on local review sites 😉

Most people I think could spot a review written in revenge or because of a bad experience, I'm not sure that is a good idea.

dontstopmenowimhavingagoodtime · 08/08/2024 07:12

Bunny44 · 07/08/2024 23:05

I think we feel nervous in dealing with him as he was so unpleasant but guess that shouldn't put us off trying.

He's trying to bully you!

Don't let him.

MultiplaLight · 08/08/2024 07:10

I would ignore any emails from him.

What a grabby twat.

dontstopmenowimhavingagoodtime · 08/08/2024 07:09

YouAndMeAndThem · 07/08/2024 22:22

So he's technically been paid £500 (£40 an hour for a 12 hour day!) to do nothing... And now expects the £1300 extra for what exactly? He has used no equipment, no travel, no skills or editing afterwards, no planning! Absolute bullshit, weddings made businesses mad!!

Exactly this! He wants 100% profit.

Tell him to go take a run, say take me to court then.

He's a chancer.

marshlellow · 08/08/2024 06:58

When they were informed of the cancellation (straight away 7 months out) they weren’t very nice about it and basically said she’d lose the deposit (somewhat expected)

What do you mean they weren't very nice about it? If all they did is explain she'd lose the deposit that's perfectly fair enough.

Littlemisscapable · 08/08/2024 06:51

YouAndMeAndThem · 07/08/2024 22:22

So he's technically been paid £500 (£40 an hour for a 12 hour day!) to do nothing... And now expects the £1300 extra for what exactly? He has used no equipment, no travel, no skills or editing afterwards, no planning! Absolute bullshit, weddings made businesses mad!!

This. Surely court will laugh him out if he went down that route. Awful way to run a business. Karma won't be kind.... Hope you get sorted. (And can you check and see if he was working that day!?l )

Whatevershallidowithmylife · 08/08/2024 06:50

It probably isn’t likely he’d been be to get another booking given people book so far in advance-7 months is nothing. Morally- entirely different story but ultimately that’s what pays his mortgage etc.

PleaseSendNoodles · 08/08/2024 06:40

Wow! I’m so sorry your sister is dealing with this. I’m a wedding videographer. I charge 25% to book. That’s non refundable (but I’ll honour it for a new date in the future). I don’t even charge the balance until 30 days before. At this point it’s non-refundable because there’s no way I’ll rebook that date (but I try to show some leniency for sudden ill health etc.) Nine months is madness! Just know that he’ll get a bad rep for doing this and it’ll impact his business. Karma!

rwalker · 08/08/2024 05:15

I think it’s completely shit
but also she did actually agree to pay in these circumstances when she signed the contract
the terms were laid out in black and white . If she thought that it was unfair then the time to point this out was then . If she didn’t like the t’s and c’s she shouldn’t of signed

zigzagzigzagz · 08/08/2024 04:55

I don’t think it is reasonable to expect the full fee but I will say to those mentioning empathy, as someone who used to work in the wedding industry, that clients usually offer zero empathy to those working in it too. I heard awful stories during Covid and since - yes weddings were cancelled and rearranged and that’s difficult for clients but also lots of people like photographers were suddenly out of work and not all qualified for help. Clients didn’t care and would harass or be abusive to get deposits back - deposits often paid 2 or 3 years in advance.

inthetrenches1 · 07/08/2024 23:36

I’m wedding photographer. It’s a ridiculously long cancellation period for full payment (9 months?) and I wouldn’t expect that to be enforceable. Most credible photographers would have 1-3 months (more likely calendar weeks) as their cancellation period. As another poster has said, ignore him and see if he’ll follow through on going to court, it will cost him money to do so in the first place and there’s no guarantee he’ll win. During the Covid years (!) several contract court cases were heard and often the judge ruled in favour of the client citing the work hadn’t been undertaken so why should the client pay the full sum. Generally, and obviously, I will sympathise with wedding photographers (as I am one) because more frequently than people realise, we get shafted by many means, but this person sounds rather unfeeling and generally a bit of a shit to pursue this. I’d be interested to know who it is - this is much more typical of a male photographer than it is a female, I’m sorry to say.

Bunny44 · 07/08/2024 23:05

I think we feel nervous in dealing with him as he was so unpleasant but guess that shouldn't put us off trying.

OP posts:
Bunny44 · 07/08/2024 23:04

TreadLight · 07/08/2024 22:38

Read up on the Consumer Rights Act 2015. None refundable deposits are only fair if there is an equivalent provision of the photographer cancelled I.e. they agreed to pay you £500 if they were unable for some reason to photograph the wedding. The contract won’t have this in it, so the term about the deposit being non refundable essentially doesn’t exist and you must win in the small claims court.

The other bit about still paying the full amount is beyond unfair and would be laughed out of court.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5a807f4c40f0b62302693daf/Unfair_Terms_Explained.pdf

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2015/15/contents

Schedule 2 part 1 paragraph 4

Thank you this is really very helpful.

OP posts:
LIZS · 07/08/2024 23:03

Surely some of the balance would have been the cost of photos. So while his time may be chargeable if he cannot get another booking , the work in creating the images and albums is not. Was there a breakdown of charges in the contract?

Sugarnspicenallthingsnaice · 07/08/2024 22:56

I'd ignore him too.

If he wants to pursue through small claims, he's going to firstly have to prove his attempts to rebook that date, and secondly demonstrate the actual profit he missed out on once costs are factored in.

If he's awarded anything at all, it will be less than what he's seeking now.

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