Shamima Begum

Nope. She’s appealing to the ECHR next. I think that is the last place she can appeal.

On those pictures she seems to be walking through that airport confidentially enough. It obviously goes with out saying though that no one knows what was on her mind.
If she had shown remorse and had no spouted out about heads in bins not fazing her she may have had a good chance of being allowed back. I don’t think she did herself any favors.

No, she isn't going to "come back eventually".

She has exhausted all possible appeals, thankfully.

I think she will come back eventually but I would be concerned about potential risk so she should be monitored. No one of course will like it because of the cost but she was a child. I think time is running out for her and if she doesn't come back soon her life is probably ruined.

I think there needs to be some kind of better process.

Don’t get me wrong I agree that everything about what she did and the people she joined and all their activities are absolutely awful- I’m not excusing terrorist activity of course. But not being sorry enough shouldn’t be a condition to allow you basic human rights within the law. She shouldn’t have been left stateless and abandoned by her country of birth. Even shitty humans have human rights. And so does someone who was manipulated into something terrible.

I think most people would agree that a lot of people have been groomed to do terrible things. It doesn’t make the things less terrible. Being “a massive terrorist” doesn’t change how she got there. She was a child, groomed and abused until she was complicit.

They don’t care that she’s a victim of child grooming because she isn’t the acceptable face of a victim, ie. A young white girl. That’s my point.

Yes but you can't make that point in this case, because she's a massive terrorist.

Now, if she committed a different/lesser crime, and was banned, and people were being disproportionately harsh and hypocritical, then yes.

Say, she once condoned terrorism at 15 but is now embarrassed and ashamed - then I'd agree. It would be wrong to strip her of citizenship.

Or even if she did still go to Syria but years later was disturbed by what she saw, expressed remorse, apologised. But she defended it up until her citizenship came into question. She is rightly hated.

If any of our children were killed by this woman or her husband, there wouldn't be any of this grooming nonsense. But it's all very distant and impersonal to us, so we can sit here and defend this person.

Do people really not understand what being groomed entails? The word indoctrination mean anything?
Violent dangerous groups are good at convincing people to do awful things, from the Nazis to the Mansons.

No any child can be groomed. Those groomers worked as part of a gang and knew what they were doing. All three parents wanted the airports monitoring. Read the official findings and you'll see the failings. Three underage girls, all reported missing with their passports were allowed to leave the country.

Well, quite. The educated middle class can understand the wider issues and defend her as a child who was a victim of grooming. Right now we have white working class, who read the papers with an underlying Islamophobic narrative, rioting and smashing stuff up because they thought a criminal might have been Muslim. Imagine their reaction when this Muslim girl is allowed back into “our (her) country”. They don’t care that she’s a victim of child grooming because she isn’t the acceptable face of a victim, ie. A young white girl. That’s my point.

but are you being deliberately obtuse now? because she can’t.
And it’s all very well people doing the whole ‘she fucked around and found out’ thing but the fact remains that she only ever had tenous links to bangladesh whilst her entire upbringing - and radicalisation - took place in the uk. With, arguably, a significant degree of failings from institutions from social services to uk anti radicalisation programmes who had her in sight as a fifteen year old child who should have known better but didn’t but still remained a fifteen year old child.

Are we really being so flippant as to act like the government’s ethical/moral reaponsibility ends with ‘oh well, bangladesh can have her’ knowing full well that they won’t and knowing that regardless of the technicalities and facts of the situation, this leaves the responsibility for her care and upkeep on a population she was partly responsible for demonizing?

The colonial attitude really remains strong I guess.

She was a child who was groomed. Absolutely ridiculous that this very basic fact is ignored.

So let her come back to the State who is rightly responsible for her and stand trial according to the appropriate rules and procedures of justice that we all accept and live under.

@Tandora why should she be tried here when she committed crimes abroad? Do you think Jihadi John should be tried in UK?

Again that very much sounds like a her problem
So if your, or family member, 15yo daughter was groomed at home without your knowledge, encouraged to go and bring back drugs to the UK, was caught and sent to jail in that country, would you just claim' sounds like her problem' and do nothing to try to bring them back?

I dont buy into the notion that a 15 year old can’t tell right from wrong, especially regarding the joining of a barbaric caliphate that commits acts of terror upon her own country.

Some of the things that she has said in interviews was abhorrent. She also stated that she knew exactly what she was doing when she decided to travel to Syria.

The Home Secretary’s decision to remove her British citizenship fell within the scope of the Immigration, Asylum & Nationality Act and therefore was not illegal. This has been confirmed by the Supreme Court after many appeals. SB was a Bangladeshi citizen until the age of 21, under Bangladesh’s own constitution. SB decided herself to let that lapse. Even with the Bangladeshi government stating they would not allow her in, she made no attempt to challenge this through their courts. SB made herself stateless.

SB was rightfully and legally stripped of her British citizenship.

Fuck around and find out. Be a criminal Be a naive 15 year old girl who fell victim to grooming for the purposes of sex trafficking and the countries can decide… to punish you.

There I fixed it for you.

the opposite has actually been expressed extremely strongly by many of the communities living near-around al Hol

If that is the general opinion then no problem, go to Bangladesh. Everyone's happy.

Well it’s interesting because she effectively repudiated her UK nationality by a) leaving the country to join another and b) not taking up her alternative nationality when she could have done (before age 21). The human right to nationality was largely written to prevent people being dispossessed and discriminated against by their own governments - for example Jewish Germans in the 1930s.

It wasn’t framed to spare people from the consequences of their own decisions - made after childhood, as 18 is adult, and she had three years to take up Bangladeshi citizenship and didn’t. If she had done so and they had refused, I think she would have a stronger case, but as I understand it she didn’t try. Happy to be corrected if this is not the case.

Again that very much sounds like a her problem.

The U.K. just got in first before they could.

Fuck around and find out. Be a criminal and the countries can decide to use which ever laws they legally can to punish you.

She had two citizenships so we were legally fine to remove ours. That’s her problem for being a terrorist.

Do you really think this is how it is? That Bangladesh would have given her a passport and admitted her into their communities? A country to which she has no links other than the place of her parents’ birth, in which she has never even stepped foot?
Why on earth would they do so, when the UK - the responsible country in which she was born, raised, educated and radicalised had renounced her as a terrorist?
The Bangladeshi foreign minister said if she tried to migrate to Bangladesh she would face execution.

This

She made herself stateless.

When we removed her U.K. citizenship she was or had another one. She decided not to even bother trying to apply knowing it expired at 21.

She played a game of fuck around and find out. Now she’s stopping her feet mad that she found out.

Good, I hope her human rights are finally upheld.

And …. she’s taking it to the EHCR as would be expected.

the opposite has actually been expressed extremely strongly by many of the communities living near-around al Hol, and those who were most affected by ISIS crimes, who believe largely that rich western nations should be responsible for people radicalized on their soil and not leave the considerable financial and mental toll of maintaining areas of prisons for largely European foreigners at their door, in an area that is still under risk from the last pockets of insurgency