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AIBU?

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Shamima Begum

360 replies

Mamabear04 · 07/08/2024 14:30

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cm2n8xv61x3o

I'll admit I actually don't know much about this apart from it being on the news when it happened and I did watch a documentary about it. Do you think she should be allowed to have British citizenship? I mean she was a child when it happened, surely she was groomed? And now stateless, doomed to live indefinitely in a camp with nowhere to go? I think running away to join Isis is of course absolutely awful but surely she should be treated as a child that was groomed? Or am I missing something?

Shamima Begumphotographed at Roj Camp in Syria, where she is currently interred with other women who were members of Islamic State, on March 14, 2021.

Shamima Begum loses citizenship removal appeal bid

The 24-year-old will not be allowed to challenge the removal of her British citizenship at the Supreme Court.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cm2n8xv61x3o

OP posts:
Barbadossunset · 11/08/2024 08:54

TheKeatingFive.
Thank you for answering my question.
However if she was tried in UK for crimes committed abroad wouldn’t it be impossible to find witnesses etc?

TheKeatingFive · 11/08/2024 08:52

Barbadossunset · 11/08/2024 08:50

What crimes has she committed in the UK? What would the UK have legal power to try her for?

I wondered that. So many posters have said she should come back to UK and be tried here but as pp have said, people are normally tried in the country where they commit the crimes.

Which is a different point to citizenship. She can tried anywhere but as a uk citizen

Barbadossunset · 11/08/2024 08:50

What crimes has she committed in the UK? What would the UK have legal power to try her for?

I wondered that. So many posters have said she should come back to UK and be tried here but as pp have said, people are normally tried in the country where they commit the crimes.

KTheGrey · 11/08/2024 08:35

TheKeatingFive · 11/08/2024 04:08

I mean, if other countries started offloading their terrorists to the uk, I expect you'd be livid about that, no?

Think they’d go to prison in UK if they were caught, wouldn’t they? Do we repatriate terrorists? Seem to remember the Lockerbie bomber was repatriated only because he was dying.

TheKeatingFive · 11/08/2024 08:35

KTheGrey · 11/08/2024 08:32

Usually if you commit a crime on foreign soil you are dealt with by that country’s law. There would be an abrupt end to tourism otherwise. I guess the logical thing to happen to her is for either Syria or an international court to try her for war crimes. What crimes has she committed in the UK? What would the UK have legal power to try her for?

That's a different point to her citizenry

KTheGrey · 11/08/2024 08:32

TheKeatingFive · 11/08/2024 04:05

Why would the uk get to offload their terrorists on other countries though? Why is she anyone else's responsibility other than the UKs?

Usually if you commit a crime on foreign soil you are dealt with by that country’s law. There would be an abrupt end to tourism otherwise. I guess the logical thing to happen to her is for either Syria or an international court to try her for war crimes. What crimes has she committed in the UK? What would the UK have legal power to try her for?

Crispsandwineandcheese · 11/08/2024 07:45

TheKeatingFive · 11/08/2024 06:49

im not concerned about her. Im saying she's a uk citizen and we'd no right to try and foist her on any other country. She can feel the full strength of the law here - fine. But it's very unfair on another country if we try to palm her off on them.

“ Full strength of the law here”

Do me a favour. Especially under Labours watch.

Labour are lawless ( Look at Khans London for evidence if you don’t believe me) …

Jeez. 🙄

Crispsandwineandcheese · 11/08/2024 07:43

ZurichX · 10/08/2024 14:51

She contributed to the destruction of the lives of the people of Syria. An untold, catastrophic tragedy for which she can never make restitution, and shows no remorse. She joined a group that attempted to enslave them, effectively, because she wanted to create her own statelet in place of theirs, and with abhorrent violence. Why should they have to put up with arrogant, violent westerners like her, ruining their lives, killing their families? What possible excuse could she have for that? What does her age or gender have to do with her living off loot? It is up to them to enact justice as far as she is concerned. If the group hadn’t destroyed Syria, she would not be sitting in ruins now. The Syrians themselves have no choice but to live in camps. She declared herself to be a ‘citizen’ of the Islamic State which is a de facto declaration of no longer being British, as there is no dual nationality between two nations at war. Being British is not a plastic card that you can use cynically to seek a place of safety, having fought against the foundations of that very security. The British passport grants the holder rights and privileges while travelling. The government can cancel your passport if it wishes. The Bangladeshi citizenship thing was a sleight of hand and we all know it.

Most sensible post I’ve read on here in a long time.

TheKeatingFive · 11/08/2024 06:51

NonsuchCastle · 11/08/2024 06:27

No she isn't. She does not have British citizenship.

She was a British citizen, born raised and radicalised here. Stripping her of that is a dick move by the UK towards whatever country we expect to pick up the pieces.

TheKeatingFive · 11/08/2024 06:49

NonsuchCastle · 11/08/2024 04:15

She is not "our" terrorist. She is "a" terrorist. She is her own responsibililty, not ours. Why are you so concerned about a person who has conspired to murder thousands? She has shown no remorse. Her own considerable suffering is not relevant to her crimes.

Edited

im not concerned about her. Im saying she's a uk citizen and we'd no right to try and foist her on any other country. She can feel the full strength of the law here - fine. But it's very unfair on another country if we try to palm her off on them.

NonsuchCastle · 11/08/2024 06:27

TheKeatingFive · 11/08/2024 03:21

That's even more reason not to make her someone else's problem. She was radicalised in the uk. She is the UMUK's responsibility

No she isn't. She does not have British citizenship.

Agn · 11/08/2024 06:08

She was groomed. She doesn’t come across well in interviews. Her family aren’t able to make a media friendly appeal. The girl made big mistakes, still seems lacking in nous, but has lost three babies. I think they should let her come back to the uk.

Agn · 11/08/2024 06:02

billycat321 · 07/08/2024 15:18

A couple of silly schoolgirls with romantic ideas of finding a handsome husband. What became of the other girl?

They are dead, afaik. She is the sole survivor.

Thebellofstclements · 11/08/2024 05:01

There MUST be details regarding her actions that are being kept confidential, not in the public interest etc.
Otherwise it makes no sense (compared with how liberal Britain is usually, letting in bad'uns for exile etc).

NonsuchCastle · 11/08/2024 04:15

TheKeatingFive · 11/08/2024 04:05

Why would the uk get to offload their terrorists on other countries though? Why is she anyone else's responsibility other than the UKs?

She is not "our" terrorist. She is "a" terrorist. She is her own responsibililty, not ours. Why are you so concerned about a person who has conspired to murder thousands? She has shown no remorse. Her own considerable suffering is not relevant to her crimes.

TheKeatingFive · 11/08/2024 04:08

I mean, if other countries started offloading their terrorists to the uk, I expect you'd be livid about that, no?

TheKeatingFive · 11/08/2024 04:05

NonsuchCastle · 11/08/2024 03:23

OMG, she's a f*king terrorist!

Why would the uk get to offload their terrorists on other countries though? Why is she anyone else's responsibility other than the UKs?

NonsuchCastle · 11/08/2024 03:23

TheKeatingFive · 11/08/2024 03:21

Sorry typo. UK's responsibility

OMG, she's a f*king terrorist!

TheKeatingFive · 11/08/2024 03:21

Sorry typo. UK's responsibility

TheKeatingFive · 11/08/2024 03:21

NonsuchCastle · 10/08/2024 22:03

She was a child when she went there, groomed, she has had terrible experiences. However, there is a danger she is still radicalised and therefore it's too risky to let her back in. It's awful for her but it would be a hundred times worse if she were let back in and engaged in terrorist activities.

That's even more reason not to make her someone else's problem. She was radicalised in the uk. She is the UMUK's responsibility

LemonPeonies · 11/08/2024 02:55

15 is well old enough to know right from wrong, she should have had more sense. Let her stay where she is.

NonsuchCastle · 11/08/2024 02:20

Superhansrantowindsor · 08/08/2024 13:52

She was a child who was groomed. Absolutely ridiculous that this very basic fact is ignored.

But that has no bearing on whether or not she is a danger to the people of this country.

Sometimeswinning · 10/08/2024 23:28

User7171 · 10/08/2024 21:24

You'd be out there sorting it?

I'd have 100% disowned her.

Not in a million years. I don’t care in the least bit about her. However, if this was either of my dds I’d be there with them.

NonsuchCastle · 10/08/2024 22:43

nothingcomestonothing · 10/08/2024 22:18

But we've let 300 others back in, including men who were adults when they went and who fought for IS. How likely is it that someone who was a teenager,a female and a mother, in that medieval belief system, did worse than them? She probably never left the house. How can she be a bigger risk to us than adults who fought for IS and who are now free on our streets? It doesn't make sense.

They should not have been let back in either. I don't know whether she's a bigger risk than them. You are assuming a lot.

StoneofDestiny · 10/08/2024 22:40

She did herself no favours when giving an extensive interview that was aired on TV. Despite the advice of her legal team she was still unapologetic, refused to name supporters of ISIS in this country who arranged her transport out to join them and came across as justifying the behaviour of ISIS. She certainly sounded like a danger to National Security.

That said, I do wish she had had a trial in the UK.

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