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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Shamima Begum

360 replies

Mamabear04 · 07/08/2024 14:30

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cm2n8xv61x3o

I'll admit I actually don't know much about this apart from it being on the news when it happened and I did watch a documentary about it. Do you think she should be allowed to have British citizenship? I mean she was a child when it happened, surely she was groomed? And now stateless, doomed to live indefinitely in a camp with nowhere to go? I think running away to join Isis is of course absolutely awful but surely she should be treated as a child that was groomed? Or am I missing something?

Shamima Begumphotographed at Roj Camp in Syria, where she is currently interred with other women who were members of Islamic State, on March 14, 2021.

Shamima Begum loses citizenship removal appeal bid

The 24-year-old will not be allowed to challenge the removal of her British citizenship at the Supreme Court.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cm2n8xv61x3o

OP posts:
Wakeywake · 07/08/2024 15:08

I agree, she is British and she should be brought back to the UK. I've not got much sympathy for her, she was showing no remorse up until the point where she started fighting to be brought back. But she's British and she should be treated as such.

lunar1 · 07/08/2024 15:07

Who wants to live Nextdoor to her? Have kids in the same class? Have the people she will consider friends on your street etc?

She was a child, there are children who commit horrific crimes than cannot be forgiven just because of age.

The time for her to return to the UK and the rest of us not be at an increased risk is a long time gone.

Mamabear04 · 07/08/2024 15:06

newbeggins · 07/08/2024 15:04

Is there intelligence/allegations about her role in ISIS and whether she inflicted harm on others (including other women?)

This is what I am wondering too..

OP posts:
DragonFly98 · 07/08/2024 15:05

If she was white, blonde and middle class she would have been back in the UK years ago.

ZiaMcnab · 07/08/2024 15:05

Aaron95 · 07/08/2024 15:01

What she did is irrelevant. Yes she should keep her British citizenship. It is a basic tenet of international law that you cannot make a person stateless which is that the UK government has decided to do. To do so is utterly irreponsible.

Her age and what she may or may not have done is irrelevant. She is (was) a British citizen and as such is our responsibility. If she committed crimes then bring her back and put her on trial for those crimes.

This

newbeggins · 07/08/2024 15:04

Is there intelligence/allegations about her role in ISIS and whether she inflicted harm on others (including other women?)

DrinkFeckArseBrick · 07/08/2024 15:04

I agree with you OP. I don't think this punishment in line with punishments for other people who actually fought with isis. And I don't think it's right that in the UK, you can be effectively punished your entire life for actions committed when you were 15. The 'she made her bed now she has to lie in it' doesn't apply for life foe any other crime committed by a 15 year old

Campcritters · 07/08/2024 15:03

She’s definitely a scapegoat but not enough people really care that much because she isn’t particularly likeable.

Sexisthairdressers · 07/08/2024 15:02

Genevieva · 07/08/2024 14:48

I believe it is Bangladeshi. I seem to remember her father lives there, but it’s years since I read about her.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/explainers-53428191

Bangladesh have said that she is not eligible for citizenship, and she would not be allowed in. She is stateless.

I feel so sorry for her. She was a child and has been through so much. She should be allowed back.

NeedSomeAnswersPlease · 07/08/2024 15:02

macaroniandcheeze · 07/08/2024 15:01

Ironically I can help but think that growing up in a U.K. with racist riots going on is likely to push more youngsters into the hands of radical groomers

Especially young Muslim men who are being told they're not welcome here. It pushes them into their open arms

Balloonhearts · 07/08/2024 15:02

TheFlis · 07/08/2024 14:48

I could forgive her actions as a 15 year old but not her complete lack of remorse or repentance since.

This.

Leave her there. She's being treated a lot better than the people she condones the murder of.

Tutorpuzzle · 07/08/2024 15:02

Trouble is she’s the poster girl for punishment. I understand that other women, and plenty of men (obviously) have made their way back from Isis, and other terrorist organisations, but without the fanfare.

She also is composed, and not crying and beating her breast with shame and remorse, which is what society seems to demand.

Of course she should be returned to stand trial, and then the key thrown away, if necessary. She is, rather unfortunately admittedly, a citizen of the UK.

macaroniandcheeze · 07/08/2024 15:01

Ironically I can help but think that growing up in a U.K. with racist riots going on is likely to push more youngsters into the hands of radical groomers

Aaron95 · 07/08/2024 15:01

What she did is irrelevant. Yes she should keep her British citizenship. It is a basic tenet of international law that you cannot make a person stateless which is that the UK government has decided to do. To do so is utterly irreponsible.

Her age and what she may or may not have done is irrelevant. She is (was) a British citizen and as such is our responsibility. If she committed crimes then bring her back and put her on trial for those crimes.

Spidey66 · 07/08/2024 15:01

Im on the fence.

On the one hand, she was 15 and groomed. However, unlike others in that situation she doesn't appear to have learnt anything and doesn't appear able to reflect on what she's done. If she did, I'd be more sympathetic.

Topseyt123 · 07/08/2024 15:00

TheFlis · 07/08/2024 14:48

I could forgive her actions as a 15 year old but not her complete lack of remorse or repentance since.

Do you really think that with people from ISIS presumably looking on while she is interviewed she will be free to slag them off and say how stupid it is to actually join them?

What would happen to her after the cameras stopped recording if she said the wrong thing? These are not kind people who will offer comfort and solutions.

PrimitivePerson · 07/08/2024 14:59

I got involved with Christian fundies in my teens, and suffered greatly for it. I was an idealistic kid who didn't like the way the world was going, and when someone came along with an alternative vision that sounded appealing, I jumped in and gave it my all.

She's done something pretty similar. It's had far worse consequences for her, but I see a lot of me in her, and as such think she's been treated abominably badly. I think she deserves another chance.

twomanyfrogsinabox · 07/08/2024 14:58

Sexisthairdressers · 07/08/2024 14:57

What evidence do you have for this?

She admitted a lot of it, practically bragged about it in interviews.

ladycarlotta · 07/08/2024 14:58

she was groomed and trafficked. And I understand that there were opportunities to prevent her and her friends leaving the country, which were purposefully not taken. I find that unforgivable in the case of minors being permitted to travel abroad without their families' knowledge or consent.

I have no idea whether she is a 'good' person or what her personal beliefs now are but she should never have been made stateless.

macaroniandcheeze · 07/08/2024 14:58

Blondiebeachbabe · 07/08/2024 14:35

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

Do you say that about all teenage girls who are victims of grooming?

Sexisthairdressers · 07/08/2024 14:57

twomanyfrogsinabox · 07/08/2024 14:56

She stayed willingly when she was an adult, she saw peoples heads being put in bins and didn't care, she helped fit people with suicide bombs, she only wanted to come back after ISIS was pretty much defeated, she would have happily stayed there helping them otherwise. I feel sorry for the child she was, not for the adult she became and I don't want her back in the UK, possibly stirring up hatred.

Edited

What evidence do you have for this?

twomanyfrogsinabox · 07/08/2024 14:56

She stayed willingly when she was an adult, she saw peoples heads being put in bins and didn't care, she helped fit people with suicide bombs, she only wanted to come back after ISIS was pretty much defeated, she would have happily stayed there helping them otherwise. I feel sorry for the child she was, not for the adult she became and I don't want her back in the UK, possibly stirring up hatred.

Juyjuly32 · 07/08/2024 14:56

NeedSomeAnswersPlease · 07/08/2024 14:43

I do wonder if attitudes would be different if she was a young blonde girl who was groomed by extremists

Oh wait, we have evidence of how different it would be

This. THEY should of brought her back much sooner as well.

Mumteedum · 07/08/2024 14:56

K0OLA1D · 07/08/2024 14:44

What about the kids who killed James Bulger? Should they be forgiven?

The 2 kids who were in the news recently who killed the 19 year old? Them too? They're still children after all

Who did she kill?

Topseyt123 · 07/08/2024 14:54

I agree, OP. She should be brought back and monitored, with rehabilitation.

I don't care what anyone thinks of me saying that. She was a child (15?) when she went out. Since then she has been forced into terrible marriages and all three of her babies have died.

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