Shamima Begum

I have no idea.

I would support her coming back and going to prison.

I am just arguing, as I said, the child remarks.

Technically the killer of the innocent girls last week wasn't an 'adult'. Being a child, over a certain age should not be used as an excuse.

Are the Afd running slave markets, blowing up infidels and burning people alive? If so , yes, never ever let your blue eyed darlings return home.

Indeed, and their punishment reflected that. Does hers?

@KreedKafer

She is British

Clearly she isn't.

I don't see how this is remotely fair or even legal. She was a child. If she was born of German parents and ran away to join the AfD, I very much doubt she would be treated the same.

I'm not comparing her to the James Bulger killers.

I was arguing the 'she was just a child' line. As they were.

The trauma of the yazidi girls kept as sex slaves by your poor wittle "groomed" ISIS idiots counts for shits and giggles? No wonder you produce so many Isis wannabes - you have rather a perverted sense of morality.

Maybe the fact that she's openly said so herself in interviews?

And no, I can't be arsed to go looking for them for you.

She was born in Britain and had a British passport by birth. She wasn't awarded citizenship as an immigrant because she didn't immigrate here. She is British, and has never held citizenship of any country other than Britain and therefore I don't think Britain should be able to remove the citizenship of anyone who has an automatic right to it by birth, under any circumstances.

She has committed a terrible crime and I think she should pay the same price any other British criminal would pay. When someone like, eg, Rose West or Levi Bellfield commits a crime, we deal with them with a criminal trial and sentence. We don't just announce that they're no longer British and refuse them a trial. Therefore we shouldn't be doing that to Shamima Begum either.

Whether or not she was groomed or vulnerable at the time of her crime and whether her age was relevant should be neither here nor there in terms of her citizenship. Even if she knew exactly what appalling crime she was committing and wasn't manipulated or groomed at all, she still shouldn't have her citizenship by birth taken away on that basis. Whether she was groomed or not should be an argument put forward in a criminal court (as it would be for any other defendant who committed their crime when they were 15) and the judge can consider whether it is or isn't a mitigating factor when sentencing.

I've got virtually no sympathy with her on a personal level, in fact. I don't think there are any excuses for her crimes. But I do think it's a slippery fucking slope if we just start telling British people they're not British in lieu of giving them a trial. I think a lot of people who think the withdrawal of citizenship is OK only think it's OK because she's non-white, and haven't realised that that this could happen to any British-born person, not just British-born people with dark skin and immigrant parents.

@mirax How is it hysterical reasoning? Is it because he is white he can't be labelled a terrorist and prosecuted? That's two tier policing and justice then.

I believe she was an A grade student. I’d describe her as many things but dense isn’t one of them with those grades.

I have no idea. That would be for the DPP and the police to determine. Judging by the opinions on here she is guilty of any manner of crimes and such a big threat she may bring down the establishment as we know it.

Is the fact she married a man in his mid 20s immediately after arriving in Syria not evidence enough of grooming for you?

If a white 15-year-old married a man in his 20s would that be grooming to you?

Agree

You cannot have seen her speak if you think this. She’s not charismatic, or convincing. She doesn’t seem to know much about the Islamic State ideology or particularly believe in it. She comes across as very dense, in fact, to the point that I imagine she’s far more vulnerable to the manipulation of others than they would be to her (as her history suggests).

She came for the boys and that was it.

Sounds like a great idea.

In fact let's take it one stage further. Anyone the Home Seccretary dislikes can have their citizenship taken away.

No actually thinking about it - the Home Secretary is a very busy person - we should just have a poll on the Daily Mail website. If enough people vote that they don't like you then bye-bye passport and it's deportation time!!!

Womp womp. There are a million other people I could be fretting over before SB.

Why the "here in Britain FFS"? She was presumably radicalised online. Maybe her parents should have paid more attention to her, then, and controlled her internet access.

I think highly intelligent and trained judges who've heard all the evidence know a bit more than the average MNer does. I also assume they've been well educated on the rights and wrongs of removing her citizenship.

I am not convinced that she was groomed, plenty of teenage girls do silly things of their own volition. They don't, however, generally join terrorist organisations overseas.

Of course I think grooming happens. A 15 year old girls ‘falls’ for a 20 year old and thinks she loves him etc. The adult should be jailed but the child didn’t hurt anyone else so she’s the only victim.

Joining a known terrorist organisation is not the same as the above example. 15 is old enough to know right from wrong regrading getting in to a relationship with someone who is a terrorist and commits atrocities. There is no justification for that in any shape or form.

She would be an incredibly dangerous woman to have in our prison system.

It was a legal decision, but the choice was made by a politician based on bad, politicised law.

This is exactly it. It was the handsome young men that attracted them. The ideology was incidental.

I agree this is very wrong. Not just because she was a child and was groomed. Because she was British by birth, from birth. She does not get her citizenship by gift of the government; in fact the government is government by the decision of citizens.

To make matters worse, it is illegal to make any person stateless, under international law that Britain is signatory to. The British government is claiming that she has a right to Bangladeshi citizenship through her mother, but the Bangladeshi government has said she would have had to apply before she turned 19, and they will certainly not grant it now.

It's totally sinister that our leaders think they can just take your citizenship away if they don't like you. I get why they don't like her, but they still cannot do that.

And every other country with nationals in this situation has repatriated them and tried them for their crimes at home. It looks like the people in charge know they won't be able to get a conviction against Begum because there's no evidence she actively fought for ISIS and because she was a child. She was radicalised here in Britain FFS

I've said this several times on here before I am sure.. but I don't care if she was a misguided teen, groomed, or revels in it to this day and takes delight in the thought of terrorism.

She is a British citizen by birth. She is our problem to take care of.

I think she is dead