To think people have the wrong idea about the reason parents use private schools?

I send my children to private school because they both have SN and would absolutely not cope in larger classes, and absolutely benefit from the amount of pastoral care,1:1 time and the excellent communication between parents and teachers.

I can barely,only just,afford it as a single parent on one income. Nothing to do with exam results or mixing with the 'wrong backgrounds'.

Completely agree!

I also work in fiscal policy too and can see this. Technically speaking the tax burden on the moderately well off has risen so much but fallen for those on lower incomes.

The only true way to improve things like schools is a basic rate rise but this would be politically unpopular.

Your personal experience is fine and valid, but that is anecdata and does not mean anything in relation to the many of us who do not send them private for better grades. Presumably you've used your wealth to buy a house in the catchment of your "very good state schools" in the hope your children will do well. Not sure I see any moral difference there. And as to your last sentence...again, you've made a huge assumption that after 11 pages, I've lost the will to argue against again.

Interesting and considerate post above that - as a private school parent - rings true.

As someone who works in the field of fiscal policy I disagree with:

The energy people put into complaining about private schools would be better spent campaigning on taxing the super wealthy and large companies, so the tax can be used to improve state education and the lives and prospects of families living in areas of deprivation.

large companies are not doing anything illegal and it is not in the gift of one country’s government to change the way the taxation of multinationals works. You’ll be glad to hear the OECD is making progress here. The super wealthy won’t fund better schools either. What’s needed is a material rise to the basic rate of income tax that all income tax payers pay. This would bring in the money needed for the changes needed.

parents need to start emailing councillors AND MPs every time an ECHP takes ages and needs to be appealed, or when a secondary class has a non-subject specific supply teacher, or when persistent bullying goes unaddressed etc etc. Demand better. Be a thorn in their side. Get your MP behind you in a quest for better state education (and funding) for all. Let’s start expecting better.

I don’t think I agree based on my personal experience. I went to private school purely for exam results, because the state schools were not great in my area. My family could afford it but in hindsight, disagree with the concept of it and found the fellow parents insufferable social climbers who wanted the “prestige” attached to it. I too can afford private school but will never send my children to it — fortunately the state schools in my area are very good and I don’t believe in setting my children up to think they’re in any way superior based on their parents’ bank accounts.

If you post something on MN you can’t choose who does and doesn’t respond. Perhaps one of the education forums would be better than AIBU.

My son went to private school for two years because his state primary fell apart, went into special measures and had been letting him down for years.

He then went back into state secondary.

What I liked about private school:

• Small class sizes
• Excellent sports facilities and coaches
• Excellent drama facilities and regular school plays
• High quality visits, in school events days and trips
• Wrap around childcare included in the price and of high quality
• Well organised school with good email comms with parents
• Away from the struggling cash strapped state system
• Teachers paid more and less stressed than in state schools

It wasn't about exam results as this was primary school.

If I could have afforded to carry on through secondary I would, for the reasons above plus exam results.

It is an unfair system though, that some parents can afford this for their kids and others can't. But that applies to all areas of life. I can't afford a two million pound house, or a horse, or an exotic holiday. I can't afford private healthcare. I can't afford to not work full time. We live in an unfair society, which sucks.

It would be good if all schools had small class sizes and excellent quality education. And it'd be wonderful if there were no deprived areas in the UK so all schools were operating within the context of all children growing up with equally nurturing and supportive family backgrounds, and children who enjoy studying were not bullied for it. I didn't choose private to pull my child away from any socio economic groups as I'm fortunate to live in a middle class area with excellent state schools. But like a PP I was bullied for wanting to study when I was at school which deeply affected my grades and career prospects so I understand why some parents consider this important.

The energy people put into complaining about private schools would be better spent campaigning on taxing the super wealthy and large companies, so the tax can be used to improve state education and the lives and prospects of families living in areas of deprivation.

And to a PP who said something about private school parents thinking their children are more deserving or special or important than others - nobody is thinking in those terms. All parents want the best for their children, and are focused on their own children, not other people's.

Of course private schools have bullies. All of them. Any that say otherwise are lying and I don't know any who do. What they DO generally do though, is deal with it effectively and permanently. And as this thread has demonstrated the only people who believe in the OB network are non PS parents who think it's still a thing. It may be in a very small handful of elite schools that cost 2/3 times what an ordinary one does but not in the vast majority. I don't think many people part with tens of thousands of pounds out of ignorance.

Sorry, I can't edit now either. Just a moment of frustration.

@Uglyandgrumpy I wish you hadn't said bitter and jealous. It undermines us a PS parents who are trying to explain why we're doing this. Had you said, "a thread for those of us who use PS and are familiar with the variety of them, the reality of them and are not basing our opinions on anecdata, sweeping generalisations and misunderstandings of what a typical PS is like" I would agree with you. The minute you say everyone who is against PS you lose the argument and give fuel to the idea that we are sneering at the "other side".

Admittedly haven't read entire friend..

I think some parents paying out for private schools are in cuckoo land. I was bullied at the two private schools I attended. Private schools still have bullies..... The old boys network everyone talks about, I've never really witnessed. The one person I know who had access to boys network, it was via Uncle (was the MD of the bank he went to work for), the door was opened by a family member not a school friend.

Can there not be a discussion regarding private schools that only parents who's kids attend them are allowed on? There's no point in discussing some very valid points on any of these chats as there are so many disgruntled parents who don't have the funds to be able to send their kids to private schools and thus feel jealous and bitter against those of us who can.
Thoughts?

If 10% of state school kids are disinterested, disruptive, bullies or just simply not engaged with their schooling then that has a huge impact on the other 90%.

Paying to avoid that 10% makes absolute sense. It is also not a reflection on the other 90%.

In the specific state school I sent my kids too, that was their experience. That does not translate to all state schools and pupils are like that and I have not said that. Again, people interpreting and translating and adding meaning that is not there. I have taught in both sectors, I know there are good and bad in both. If I could get a bank to lend me enough to buy in the catchment of a great state school I would do that, but I can't. I absolutely know that there are brilliant state schools and kids out there but can we stop pretending that there isn't a large section of the population who don't value education (and by that I don't mean only wanting top grades I mean a basic understanding of why it's useful to have some qualifications and to be able to hear the teacher in a classroom) and who see school as the enemy, a source of bullying victims. I moved my kids away from that in THEIR school. In my particular circumstances the small, shabby, non selective private they go to was the best option. Saying that I am demonising all state schools or kids is just misrepresentation.

@BibbleandSqwauk ". I have said I want my kids in an environment where people value education and aren't violent bullies. That's been translated into me saying I don't want them mixing with plebs, chavs, the povvos, the lower classes."

To be honest, when coupled with the fact that you feel you need to send your children private to achieve that, it doesn't take a lot of translation....

I like threads like this. The cope is just so refreshingly desperate.

I suspect I am not alone in being one of many people who simply don't care what reasons people have to privately educate their child, just as I don't care why any chooses to buy a new car or holiday. You can spend you money how you wish.

But...

Independent education is luxury, just like other luxuries. It should be taxed as such. That's it. If I'm paying 20% tax for goddamn toilet roll then you should be private education. Good news is that caviar and helicopter rides are still VAT exempt.

These arguments about why independent education is so marvellous are hiding the fact that you just don't want to be paying VAT on discretionary spending when many others simply don't have that choice on the goods and services they buy.

Pay your tax or send your kids to state school.

But the fact is people value education differently. And even among state schools, there are some that people feel place too much of an emphasis on academics to the exclusion of other things and same for private. There are private schools in West London known to be for the 'dim but rich'. Terrible phrase but there you are. Parents who 'value' education avoid these schools. Private schools are thought of in tiers - based on academics and many avoid the top tier because they are perceived as hot houses for example. It is OK not to 'value' education if that is what it means. Same for state schools (eg super-selective grammars)

Fact is some people value education (or see it as the only way to success) more than others and location, ability to pay are 2 factors that influence that. People buy their homes with school in mind before even getting pregnant. Some rent close to schools that have the values they seek. Private schools are not the only way people exert choice.

Is it inappropriate to say I will buy in this locality because the parents there value education?
Not all schools have a predominant parent population that place a great emphasis on academics - that is just a fact

Please try and open your eyes a little.

By saying 'I send my children to private school because I want them to mix with others who value education' you are in effect saying that children in state school don't.

By saying' I send my children to private school because I don't want them to mix with violent bullies' you are in effect saying that children in state school are violent bullies.

You may not mean it but that's how it's coming across.

Do you honestly think anyone thinks 'oooh I'll chose this school because the children don't value education and has a bullying problem?'

Most people don't have that choice.

@Belgazou but she didn't say anything about other schools being sub-standard. She said it was a world away and from what I know of Eton she's right - top hats, a totally different langauge, access to horses etc. She hasn't said its BETTER, just different.

One thing I have really noticed on these threads is how those of us who are pro-private have words put in our mouths. I have said I want my kids in an environment where people value education and aren't violent bullies. That's been translated into me saying I don't want them mixing with plebs, chavs, the povvos, the lower classes. I said the school my kids were at had violent bullies, that they were targeted for trying hard and doing homework. I've been told I'm implying all state schools are like this. I absolutely am not. If I say I'm getting into debt to opt my kids out of that I get the the response that ALL kids deserve that - I haven't said they don't. In fact I have said quite the opposite - but I maintain that this VAT policy will not serve that end and will only have the effect of actually decreasing the number of children having their needs met, if ones like mine have to leave their current provision.

The worst is the one that maintains private parents want the state sector to remain underfunded to lower the competition for our darling little Sebastians and Henriettas - not a single private parent I know has said anything remotely like that. If there is a tiny elite at Eton etc that think that, they are an anomaly and not remotely representative of anyone I know in the more "normal" private sector. This thread asked why people send their kids private and its been so interesting to read the answers from people who DON'T but claim to know why we do and those of us who DO who have said why and then get told we are actually saying something else. This debate, in whatever form, will never change unless the hugely warped idea of what private education looks like is given up and certain realities acknowledged - most notably that there are a wide variety of types, in both state and private and not one statement is true of all.

DH and I have been to two of the top boarding schools in the country. I wouldn't let my children anywhere near them but each to their own. I suspect you didn't have that different universe type of education yourself and are somewhat in awe of it. We are not. Two of my DC are now at Oxbridge with exhibitions. I doubt that some sub-standard education would underpin that.

A lot of people I know who went to private schools went because, as a previous poster mentions, they failed to pass the required exam to get into the local good grammar school. You can’t really blame them. I think it’s understandable if a child isn’t academically gifted but the parent can afford additional help for them, why wouldn’t they?

Except most counties aren't grammar counties so access to these choice is either a comprehensive or private

I’ve worked in top UK grammer schools so I am very aware of the difference between an outstanding grammar school and a 45k PA internationally renowned boys boarding school. If you think they are offering the same type of education a broad and intellectual education without an obsessive focus on exam results you are delusional.
I also gave friends who had DCs at both they would also say you are delusional.
unless you’ve actually had children in these type of independent schools then you have no idea what they are getting. I’m not commenting on whether it is right or wrong that a tiny group of children receive this type of education I’m just stating a fact that it is in a different universe to anything that state can ever offer.

Can you explain what you mean in this context? Why is it wrong to not want my kids in classrooms with kids who don't value education and bully them? I don't care if they're rich, poor, whatever. I've no doubt those things go on in both private and public but in my particular case, the state schools near me were the issue and the private one the solution I'm not alone.
@Belgazou maybe that poster does not live near a state grammar. It's fairly well accepted now that access to grammar schools is also closely tied to wealth, tutoring, aspiration etc. All the things that probably care parents are being decried for.

Ah so the same type of education that we got in state grammar.