To wonder why our value is defined by money?

Ha! Like you've done on the thread about riots? 🤔
Acting like people shouldn't be bothered or scared by them, bloody hypocrite.

I think that money and success is fine in itself.

I meant to add that, even though you dislike it, you still link money with success.

I genuinely don't.

OP, I think people who find their own value and worth in money value it in others. But that doesn't mean everyone does.

I dated a man a few years ago who completely found his worth and value in money. He earned a 6 figure salary, had a huge house that he lived in alone and a really nice car. He truly believed that this made him 'better' but nobody else cared. He had some very wealthy friends and others who were objectively poor. He didn't regard the wealthy friends as better than the less wealthy but he preferred himself when he was hanging around with them drinking fine champagne and eating caviar. He would do things like go out with his less well earning friends and then make a big show of picking up the bill at the end and then complaining to me that no one seemed grateful for his gesture. He was an arse.

Anyway, I remember the first time he came round to mine for dinner. I actually lived in a much more affluent area than he did but earned 1/3 of what he did. He picked up my cutlery and commented on about how heavy it was, how there was some weight to it and clearly saw that as a sign of 'quality' versus his cheap, lightweight cutlery. The quality of my cutlery was often brought up. I never did tell him that it had cost me £10 from Asda 10 years previously 😅

We argued once because he only measured success in terms of salary, income, money.

He asked how I could consider myself 'successful' when I earned to so little (compared to him). I said that every day, I woke up and looked forward to going to work; I have overcome huge adversity to get when I am; I got a first class degree as a single parent; I have two wonderful children to whom I'm very close; I go to bed every evening happy; my work makes a positive difference in other people's lives every day; I genuinely do find the joy in the little things; I have peace in my heart every day.

And all he had was a big house; an expensive car; flash holidays and a shit tonne of money in the bank. And now he's single again too.

He just didn't get it. He really didn't believe I could be genuinely happy on my (still above average) salary.

He was shallow and insecure. And, tbh, that is how I regard anyone who only values themselves and others through money.

People aspire to he seen as having done well for themselves and, for a lot of people, that means money - look at all the arguments on here about class! Because, for some, it's linked to wealth and everyone tramples over each other to he seen as more middle class - from the aspirational working class who brag about Centre Parcs holidays to those who wouldnt be seen dead at CP because it's 'common'.

It doesn't mean that that is how everyone values others. But, yes, people who value themselves through money will do the same to others.

Edited to say - on reflection, he did think his wealthier friends were better than his poorer ones. He also thought his poorer ones aspired to be like him. They didn't and, as much as they liked him, they didn't like this aspect of his character.

@Abigail47 not my experience at all. The popular girls at school were loud and self confident. It was a long time ago though.

I don't recall such hierarchies at the children's schools which were pretty inclusive despite being expensive.

I'm not sure I believe or think doctors and psychologists are rich.

Not something I have come across tbh

Are we defined by wealth? only if we want to be

I had 4 millionaires at my wedding which we did in our back garden for less then a grand ( clothes included ) Those millionaires came because we are friends, I also had friends there on PIP and GVT pensions And everyone was welcomed and treated the same.

I work in a very posh store, I dont care how much money you have, talk to me like something you stepped in, Ill let you know, straight up to your face

Anyone worry or judging against wealth needs to understand that graves are all the one size

NRTt

Rich people have lifestyles erroneous wants so are appealing.

However I find anyone that is good at what they do has value in the world at large. People recognise thosewith talent / skills

It's fascinating that the more you speak about them, the more detail you seem to remember. I wonder though...
If they were notorious in the area for their snobbery, why did you want to join them?
How did you become aware of such level of the detail about someone's family life and their reasons for not going to the wedding if they "shut you out" of the group?
Who are "we all" who spoke about it at the time? Did you speak about this with the rest of the group (who shut you out) or were you gossiping behind their back?
You speak of kindness but you are not kind to these people at all. What do you make of that?

You make a very good point there, I have frequently wondered this myself and where they justify it.

You gave the example of kindness, which in my opinion is priceless so people who are kind can not be valued in money
as kindness, generosity, and charisma are on a different frequency or wavelength. Monetary value is on another frequency and can not be cancelled out by each other, in my opinion because personality traits ( such as kindness, are subjective ) and monetary value is objective.

I am not referring to aspectrum to describe the personality traits of human beings, I hate the word spectrum, it's as bad as comparing the human race to a pelican crossing, it misses out the subtle differences in people, their ways and personalities which are complex.

Everyone is different and thats fascinating to me!

I agree with you op. I think people are even more materialistic here in London as property is so expensive.

I don't think I agree with you. I'm not sure what you think of as rich, but I'd say my household is fairly comfortable. We socialise with people similar to ourselves. I would never think ooh that person is poor I won't talk to them, but naturally I socialise with others who are like myself as we tend to have similar values, ways of bringing up our DC, go on days out together without having to think of cost, go for meals and drinks, talk about holidays, things we've done, things were going to do. Growing up I never knew or cared how much money my friends parents had but I can see now they were again similar to my family. Again, shared interests, days out, play dates out, parents had the same values. It's just life isn't it.

This definitely exists. Everywhere.

It really, really doesn't.
I don't recognise what you said in your OP (or many of your later posts) at all.

I don't judge someone by their wealth.

Unless these women explicitly told you they shut you out based on your socio-economic status, I'm afraid you made an assumption. It's not rude to point the bleeding obvious.
I don't know the contents of your bank account but I am pretty certain we wouldn't get along. See, I am quite capable of seeing beyond money...

What is fair has very little to do with anything.

What you are describing is behavior that is common across not just humans of all stripes, but across the animal kingdom as a whole. None of this is behavior exclusive to capitalism or the wealthy.

Also people often have a “like me” bias. The thing they consider to be most “like me” may be way they filter people. So some people don’t care about money, it may be an interest such as pp poster mentioned dogs. Some people may consider only other rich people to be like them. Dh has always struggled to get on with a lot of other men because he doesn’t give a fuck about football and can’t be arsed to pretend (I sweat this has cost him a promotion) , could be because someone is the similar level of attractiveness or intelligence. Loads of stuff really.

There are posters here with friends in very different income groups but they will probably have something that connects them. So I don’t disbelieve you at all but I don’t think it is anything you should worry about. Don’t let feeling rejected take over your sense of wellbeing.

I grew up with immigrant parents in a council house in an area that was 'down on its luck' in South London. I work in a company where most people have no money problems. Most went to uni, ski, boarded at school, have a family summer homes with space to accommodate guests. It is different.
I'm in the middle, grew up with very little, have 2 homes now, nice cars etc and find it hard for my 2 circles to mix.
People often feel tied to the they know.

Yeah this

I think it’s because humans are hierarchical animals and are driven by gaining status. So people often like people who they think have value, social currency etc. Most of us manage to have that civilised out of us at some point and try to be pleasant to everyone regardless.

I think whats good is that over time as a society we have inched towards valuing different thing or have a more thoughtful view about value.

Because the ability to acquire resources (money, food, land etc), and the need to compete and associate with others with resources must have been a massive driving force in human beings since we have existed. It's always been important for status and survival. We haven't really evolved out of any of our basic drives and I doubt we ever will.

I think when people say capitalism they are looking through a very modern lens and its quite a lazy answer.

The reality is that all social animals have a hierarchy and that is represented by numerous things dependent on the animal

So it may have been the family with the biggest hut, because they had the biggest piece of land, because they bargained more for it, because they were more powerful than the next family, they then became the leader of the group or the elder, or the influence in the community. Their children then had the prize picks of marriages and so on and so on

Land, resources, food, shelter, assets, all markers of a successful human. Money in its present form is just the newest incarnation of that (and I say new, meaning thousands of years old, but it replaced other ways of bargaining and measuring power).

Luckily, we don't buy into that narrative and the people who surround us dont either.

We don't put our worth on what someone else tells us it is by the amount they are willing to pay us, or by the house we have or the cars we drive. We live a nice life and enjoy ourselves, but we would hate for that to be how people value is...how sad.

We mix from one end to the other, and we treat everyone the same. I place value and worth on how someone treats me and others around us.