Are people on Mumsnet secretly racist or what?

Well the term “racist” is a bit like “transphobe” . It won’t be long before the term racist has little meaning and those facing true racism have no meaningful word to describe what is happening to them.

interesting that MN has hidden the debate around the Muslim rioters in Birmingham.

There are very real issues around race people are facing which need to be discussed.

We are called racist on here for using our own eyes.

I spoke of a true incident that I saw and my comment was deleted because it didn't fit the narrative of the protests.

There are some lovely supportive threads at the moment talking about how horrified posters are by the racist thugs . Also, Mumsnet is not a single thinking homogeneous unit - I've been on Mumsnet for years and would say on the whole it's reallly not racist.

As an asian person a lot of this is quite personal to me but I try to stay objective about it. I do think some people are racist but I also think at the same time it’s reasonable to have concerns about some things. I actually do believe two tier policing exists, it was really clear when women's rights activists were being targeted by TRA’s (threats, harassment etc) and women were pretty much expected to suck it up because TRA’s were considered to be the “vulnerable” group. So i can well believe that people are treated with kid gloves sometimes. The guys from manchester airport haven’t even been charged yet. There were convoys with Palestinian flags who went through predominantly Jewish areas shouting “fuck the Jews, rape their daughters”, charges were dropped despite it being videoed. Equally a white man slashes a woman who turns down his advances and he gets a suspended sentence.

I pop over to the middle east conflict boards and often see conspiracy theories about Jewish people (zionist is used but you know what some of these people really mean, reasonable criticism of Israel is not what I’m talking about). That makes me feel really sad because it does seem like racism against this group is fine but not anyone else.

I do think there are problems with some communities and we aren’t always very honest about it for fear of stigmatising people. But if we tell the truth and tackle it appropriately then I think we make more progress. people need to be clearly held to account for their actions, clearly theres a breakdown in trust that the establishment is behaving in a way which is objective. I do think we should be able to discuss that rationally.

I am absolutely not justifying the rioting, I think they are scum and are criminals. it’s fucking scary being an ethnic minority right now. I also think that the muslim guys I saw beating a bloke up outside a pub and the people that threatened and chased reporters away are scum. I don’t want any of this at all. I fear there is a culture of impunity around crime full stop. I do think we need to talk about that.

Of course, because there are loads of racist people in the UK. I'm Arab; my best friend's parents are racist. They dont believe they're racist because there are individual POC they interact with whom they think are alright, like me, but they are completely capable of believing two contradictory things at the same time. They have certain beliefs about immigrants and about Arabs. My existence directly contradicts these beliefs (I think the fact my family is not Muslim but nominally Catholic was a bit of a shocker to them....not sure where they think Christianity originated but that's by the by). They know me. Apparently they quite like me. Their beliefs about Arabs I'm general remain resolutely intact.

I'm married to an Eastern European, I have campaigned for racial equality and attended events at Mosques more frequently than church.

I didn't vote last election but don't believe Reform are racist, don't believe Nigel Farage is bad. I have commented on this multiple times on here. I think the UKs immigration policy is unsustainable and think those people who call Reform racist have almost been brainwashed - it's not wrong to question levels of immigration in the UK.

We averaged 750,000 net migrants in each of the last two years. France and Germany had less than 200,000. The USA had around a million. It's not racist to question that number.

We have many immigrants into the UK who don't share the same values as us. They don't believe in the rights of women in the same way people born in the UK do. It's not racist to question whether this is bad for the UK.

It's not racist to question the level of crime being committed by migrants in the UK. The government don't collect the statistics so there is no evidence. In other European countries they do collect the statistics and migrants are responsible for significantly more crime per head than people born in those countries. It's not racist to have concerns about this.

I also question whether there is a two tier punishment system in the UK. Whether that is true or not there is a widespread lack of trust in the fairness of the system - that undermines our judicial and policing system.

I'm pretty sure there are a lot of bot/troll/agitator types on these threads. Stirring for shits and giggles, or more sinisterly representatives of those who do not wish the UK well and would like to see the place implode.

They’re not secretly racist, they’re largely proudly racist, with the odd racist pretending they’re not by saying they’re scared of saying anything because they’ll be called racist, too pathetic to even admit their own racism.

This is what I would like to do, because I like finding out about other people and it’s a lot more interesting than talking about the weather or what’s on tv.
However you simply cannot do it any more for the fear of being called racist. I actually find it sad but don’t know what to do.

Thanks OP for starting this thread. And I think you are right. But mumsnet is a reflection of our society and really what we are saying is that the UK has a problem with racism and that a lot of racist attitudes and ideas exist in many people on mumsnet in the same way.
Sorry I am very pedantic today! I swear if I see one more person defend nazis or racists by saying its freedom of speech I am going to scream. Nazis and racists as every school child knows don't believe in freedom of speech so stop applying it to them. I wish we would just make the bloody swastika illegal like the Germans, I'm also sick of seeing that.

Humans have been tribal since they first came down from the trees (and while still up in the trees). Laws can't just rewrite millennia of evolution.
The UK is the least racist country I've ever lived in, but it would be naive to expect no one to be racist just because they are "middle class".

If you let people post horrible things about trans people for years, eventually people with other horrible views will feel emboldened.

I don’t think they’ve ever been hidden.

It's a site with a massive number of users. There is no such thing as "Mumsnetters are like..." any more than you could categorise Facebook or X.

behind the mask of anonymity people do express some views that they know are socially unacceptable.
but likewise not being in favor of immigration at the level that is currently happening is not racist nor is pointing out the challenges of helping refugees who have language barriers, health concerns and little support systems.
then there is the longer term issues of the first and second generation of immigrants.
the immigrants themselves may be very grateful BUT their children (first generation immigrants) may not and may feel alone unsupported and unaccepted not fully understanding the reason why their parents left their "homeland".
not liking the current situation is not racist.

No doubt. They do it on Facebook too. Fake troll accounts.
Most will be removed in the morning OP.

there is definitely a strong uptick in racism here. same for ageism. But nothing quite as bad as the blatant disablism. MN really changed over the last decade but esp the last 2-3 years. Not sure what is happening.

Well the racists have certainly damaged our reputation abroad and will impact investments and tourism. So far the following countries have issued travel alerts to the UK: Australia, Nigeria, Malaysia and Indonesia.

Very ‘patriotic’.

I’m probably more racist against certain cohorts of my own people (British white). My time in London showed me that more often than not, they’re the ones disturbing the peace, acting like Aholes, cat calling me. I find black and Muslim people to me much friendlier. I’ve never been hassled by them. British people, I have been far too often.
I lived in Balham and not a day went by where I wasn’t hassled by a white man in a van walking down the street.

I think the implication is that if someone says something blatantly racist and you don't challenge it, you're a secret racist. Which is problematical, at best. No one is responsible for another person's views. Also a lot of posters report rather than challenge.

Not secretly racist, not remotely.

There's a weird idea around that allowing freedom of opinion trumps everything. For instance, you can't dislike someone who thinks Nazism is absolutely fine, because they're allowed to have those views. They don't seem to get it that, if they are allowed their views, then so equally the rest of us must be allowed to have a view that they are despicable. They can also come up with some ridiculous and totally race-biased version of the truth and then, when it's pointed out that they are lying, will say defensively "That's my opinion and I'm allowed my own opinions". Yes, you are dear, you parents allowed your own facts.

How do you know they vote Labour?

Me too.

I don’t know the multigenerational origin story of the fingers typing each post. I tend to dislike people based on the words they type.