Are people on Mumsnet secretly racist or what?

The people who are making Britain look terrible are the racists and the far right thugs who are burning libraries and terrorising innocent people.

Im glad people like you and @Lacdulancelot can recognise your bias. The ones who think racists are just thugs throwing bricks at Asians or people in white sheets burning crosses on black peoples lawns are often racist themselves so they use extreme examples to seperate themselves from the more “unacceptable” racists.

I had an incident outside a local shop recently, I was waiting for the place to open just before 9am. I had a delivery at home due a few minutes later. There was some sort of delay which meant just after 9am it wasn’t open and I was getting anxious and kept looking at my watch. There were a few people waiting near me too.

This woman out of nowhere ordered me to stop looking at my watch because it wouldn’t make the shop open any earlier. I was speechless but thankfully found my words and told her where to go. I really doubt if I was a fellow white Woman she would have dared to speak to me like that. What harm was it causing her if im keeping an eye on my watch? But because my skin wasn’t white and I was wearing a headscarf she thought she could try and order me around. I’m so glad I put her in her place.

When the shop finally opened I was at the front of the queue as I’d been there first, I went to stand at the counter to get served and I was gobsmacked to find this nasty woman who came in behind me went through the back entrance where the staff go - she was actually a staff member there!

now, I’ve heard reports that customer service in that shop is poor but that’s more people complaining about them opening later/closing earlier and long queues. I doubt she picks fights with most customers in my white majority town. There are white people who stand in the queue and complain loudly about how slow staff are and I’ve never seen them challenged.

She has a POC colleague that she made a big deal of saying hi to when she entered, so in her mind she’s probably not racist as she speaks nicely to some POC 🙄

We need to bring back proper teaching of history, in schools, in the media and in places like the national trust.

Yes definitely.
I don’t think the current trend of “queering history” is doing anything to help.

This, 100%. I do wonder why people are so fixated on making Britain look terrible?

We need to bring back proper teaching of history, in schools, in the media and in places like the national trust.

I’m a serial name changer who has been here around 15 years and have been accused of racism in the last couple of days.

To be clear I don’t think I am (I know everyone thinks that though), I detest Farage and the riots.

I have an opinion that the political environment over the last decades has led to this, with many people disenfranchised, perhaps not having the emotional intelligence to deal with this in a mature and useful way, voting is not the democratic process that it’s supposed to be and realistically using our vote leads to more disenfranchised people, there’s no simple cure for the shit this country is currently going through.

By not being clear about certain issues (immigration, NHS, education) and actively allowing things to deteriorate and appearing to flounder, Tories and Starmer’s piss poor effort of an opposition has allowed Farage to have a voice, a strong voice unfortunately.

Yes I believe the rioters are right wing thugs, yes I believe Farage has been inciting violence and has an agenda, but unless we change politics so everyone is represented and there is clarity around immigration (which seems to be what’s driving most of this unrest) this will continue and get worse.

The UK has become more tribal, more polarised. Before brexit it was felt that there was input from Russia or China to stir this up, I have no idea if that’s true or not, but whatever has caused it we are a divided nation and we don’t have strong united leaders to combat it. I feel it’s inevitable that we will become a harder right country over the next few years. If we want to break this trajectory it’s vital that everyone is listened to and that all issues are clearly laid out in a way that everyone can access and understand it.

We have the problem that mainstream news and SM have very much cherry picked what news people are told, which leads to distrust of news sources. Add in twatter and tiktok, where people can share live feeds that contradict what we’re being told and you have a perfect storm. Treat people like scumbag idiots and they’ll behave like scumbag idiots. This has been bubbling up for years.

Posts are not deleted just because people report that they are racist. MN looks at the content and makes a judgement as to whether they are actually racist or not.

So I would respectfully suggest that, just because you may not have seen racism, that doesn't mean that it isn't there.

OK there are racists and?

Great post! I find difficult to understand this but is where we are.

We have lost the art of nuance in this country, likely because of the polarised thinking that social media encourages. There are people who are racist, that's true, but there are also people who look for offence everywhere they go and they will find it because they have an agenda to find it. There are people who want to be seen as progressives and treat minority groups with kid gloves whilst advocating tough love for others which is where the idea that we have a two tier system comes from, and there are people who call this out and are shouted down, often being accused of racism. What there isn't is very little actual listening and understanding going on to points of view that differ.

Real racism is disgusting and as another poster has said, we are in danger of the term racism losing all its meaning when it's bandied about and applied to almost anything and everything that others have a different opinion on.

There was a thread the other day which has now been taken down on Britain's colonial history. It descended into a complete shit show but the posters being jumped on, in the main, were those who did actually have a very good knowledge of history and were trying to put it in some context. That wasn't what the OP wanted though. He/she wanted a bit of hair shirt mea culpa, aren't British white people all absolutely terrible. I saw little racism in that thread but I expect it was reported as such.

@Immemorialelms I think we all have internal prejudices which aren't our fault exactly but they are our responsibility to work on. I have classist prejudices, which I was definitely brought up with and which have been reinforced by my environment. I've worked on a lot of them and undone some but I still catch them in myself. I can safely say I'm less classist than my parents and grandparents, but I still have work to do.

I actually find it more shocking and upsetting when a person I've thought highly of reveals a subtly racist way of thinking than when I've been confronted with the more abject and ridiculous forms. I've been called a sandn**er to my face and to be honest I laughed, because what does that even mean? Its just stupid and ridiculous. But when a White person I hold in high esteem says something that reveals that....they, too, have those subtle thoughts about "people like me" (though they no doubt wouldn't think of "me" as one of "those people") that's a real slap in the face.

I live in a village about an hour from London, I came here to live from London and have been so shocked at how openly racist people are here. It’s appalling. We’re friends with very few people here because we prefer not to socialise with people who talk about others so disparagingly. Even when I tell them my sister is married a person of colour and they are talking about him and my two nieces, they don’t even look embarrassed. They are Brexit voting, Boris Johnson loving racists and it stinks.

Rather ironically, there are many middle class MN sat in their houses in the leafy Surrey villages, calling out “racist” as a symptom of their white saviour attitude.

Sadly that isn’t a surprise, a lot of racists think non-whites aren’t actually human, but a lesser animal species.

It’s an interesting point. I see some of the arguments that appear about Transpeople effectively flipped on their head and people argue the opposite when it comes to racism.

I think it’s important to have very open debate. When issues are shut down it means tensions bubble up. And eventually explode.

People have concerns born out of their experiences telling people to shut up because someone else, without those experiences, thinks it’s transphobic, racist, misogynistic etc is dangerous, people’s experiences and perspectives are their reality.

If you go on the Gaza threads, many who consider themselves anti racists seem very comfortable with antisemitism.

just like with the trans position, this situation around immigration is very complex, it cannot be encapsulated in single words or soundbites. There are times when two positions cannot be reconciled and someone will always be pissed off at the outcome. Everyone always thinks they’re right. We need to listen and be honest.

i keep saying we need to learn from history. Not look at it through revisionist eyes. But actually look at what happens in similar situations before, and this time do something different.

I'm definitely racist for the reasons @Lacdulancelot says. I don't want to be, but if I search my heart I treat and think about other ethnicities differently to how I treat and think about white people. It's important we are honest with ourselves because only then can we overcome those inner biases.

I do a lot of work checking myself and spend a lot of time trying to describe accurately the problems I see in society without kneejerk assumptions. It is a life's work and incumbent on white people to do that work.

Well I'm brown and I get fed up of people on MN saying that everyone and his dog are racist.

It minimises real racism and fuels the sort of riots we are seeing at the moment.

I read this as it was very telling that those safe spaces were needed.

Exactly! It only tells why people are wondering what are they doing wrong to be called racist. There seems to be a lot of literature out there now validating or encouraging this type of thinking.

Yes there is lots but I guess in society I bet this is also true
it’s sad and awful but not sure what the answer is! I think they know and that they have been getting pulled up on it here, it doesn’t go unnoticed
I hate what has happened

Speak for yourself, not a whole race.

You seem to be saying that a lot of people who are beacons of EDI are insincere. I have never noticed that myself.

I think every white person is racist. And I’m white.
Most of us are not deliberately racist but we have no experience of being black or Asian and will occasionally have an opinion that is based on white privilege without even knowing so. However we want to do better and will listen.

And then there are horrible racists who know exactly what they’re doing.
Unfortunately they’re getting more emboldened.

@Dorisbonson is right though. When a country is already broken in terms of housing, health and education then the communities will feel unheard and this is when racists can stir up trouble.
They will find a scapegoat and nasty thugs will join in and the riots begin.
Labour have got a lot of work to sort this.

Absolutely! Some of them are really shocking. Thanks for pointing this out.

@orangalang
you can't ask anything now because it will offend people somehow x

This is the kind of comment you would not have seen on MN until very recently.

OP, why the kiss?

Fantastic post.