My silly comment blew up wider family now dh miserable

Absolutely
Racism doesn’t have to be deliberate and doesn’t have to come from a place of hate or anger to be classed as ‘racism’.
The OP’s comments were inappropriate.
The op should have accepted that her comments were hurtful and apologised.
For someone who has a member of the family from a different race/ culture the Op comes across as pretty ignorant .

@LBFseBrom I think this is also an issue, that OP didn't realise that she may have been racist for years and years resulting in the sils current attitude. The fact she didn't mean any harm does not change the fact for pages she didn't want to accept that she made an inappropriate hurtful comment and looked for people to tell her she was right and her kids abd the sil were in the wrong. The number of posters ascertaining her she was absolutely fine to make the comment is pretty depressing and really illustrates the covert racism point pretty well.

Definitely agree that covert racism is insidious.

I do get that, have always been aware of covert racism, Kateeeeuyyy . It comes across in rather silly remarks, sometimes meant to sting, sometimes not, but always making it clear that the person's ethnicity (and/or religion), is what is noticed before anything else. It's frankly cringeworthy, especially in this day and age in England. We have been multi-cultural and multi-ethnic for so very long, it should not be an issue.

On facebook there are groups which attract extremely vocal racists. Those of us who try to reason with them, giving another point of view, are ridiculed, insulted, shouted down. They don't even have their facts straight a lot of the time. Many of them are quite ignorant, even semi-literate, and they often spoil a group, driving moderate people away.

Something I have always hated in real life is when a person like me, ie white, English, makes a racist commentt or a 'joke' to me, expecting me to agree because I am outwardly like them. There have been times, when younger, that I actually didn't understand what they were saying but I certainly did learn. It's horrible, it shows their true colours and I have often been disappointed in somebody whom I liked.

The op, however, does not appear to fit into that category. She was tactless, naive maybe, but did not mean any harm. That is what I glean from the information she has given us, none of us was there at the time. She will have learned from what has happened and I think she should be forgiven. It is has to be sorted, this is family.

I agree. I remember when my (now Ex) husband move to the UK from a country we were living in together (he’s not from there). He experienced overt and really quite severe racism that affected his entire life on a daily basis. This included being paid less due to his passport, being not offered free tea and coffee as he was ‘beneath it’ and withholding his passport during holiday times so that he couldn’t leave the country (like the rest of his nationality, apparently , it was likely he would flee and not return to work after).

when he moved to the UK, he said that the situation was worse- racism here is more ‘covert’, more ‘underhand’. To an outsider, who is white and doesn’t understand, it can seem like it isn’t really happening, but the microagressions continue all day long, but with no real way of calling it out as racism, as it doesn’t look like the violence and overt displays we see in the media. Nevertheless, it wears on his self worth and confidence and limits his potential in so many ways.

I can see why the niece and mother are upset. You’d expect your family to understand. You’d expect them to want to understand. You’d expect to feel safe from racism in your own (or a family members) home.

The thing is, it doesn’t really seem from your replies that you actually understand or appreciate the gravity of your DN situation. You have no idea what it means to be a third culture kid , and what you said would have cut deep because as such, you’re constantly having to ‘justify ‘ where you belong. Her mum sounds like she is upset for her, and understandably so, because even though you have ‘apologised’ she probably sees that you don’t really understand what you’ve apologised for.

reading literature from a country and nearby won’t help you ‘understand’ a whole culture. Ask her, talk to her , and actually listen.

@GabriellaMontez

Ime teens aren't necessarily good judges. They're so worried about how things look/what people are thinking. Rather than what really matters. Ignore them.

God what a bleak approach to engaging with teenagers you love.

Crumb cake is a cake with crumbs on top, usually made with cinnamon and sugar. I think both crumble and cobbler have fruit. Crumb cake is usually just a butter cake.

I don't know if what the OP said was offensive, but I can see how someone might think of it that way. I think the fact that her own children were shocked by it would imply that perhaps it was worse that she made out and/or it's indicative of an ongoing lack of sensitivity on OP's part.

Crumb cake has German origins.

Here’s the best explanation I’ve found about the differences in America.

www.thekitchn.com/whats-the-difference-between-a-cobbler-crumble-and-crisp-90877#

It was a very offensive comment.

a) you've told her she isn't British. Her identity is for her to determine, not you

b) you've implied that being British is something for people of her other nationality to "aspire to", which is appalling.

I'm not surprised they are furious.

I always thought cobbler was their version of crumble (purely based on what it looks like on tv)

If you glance at it quickly, your brain tricks you into thinking OP meant Third World Country. I had to read it twice to realise what was meant.'

I always thought crumble originated in America, and they call it 'crumb cake'. That is not terribly relevant of course :-).

Considering dear niece lives in the States (if I’ve read correctly) where crumble also called a crisp is very popular, she may not have known it was a traditional British dish and doubt she expected to be questioned over it and having her Britishness questioned in front of family.

Curious as to how you’ve reached that conclusion? Based on what?

As a dual national immigrant who has lived in three continents.
Also DH works in Europe a lot including managing crews and for instance in Italy the locals and the immigrants frequently come to blows at work.

Normally be not being white.

Where did I say it was the most or least? I spoke of overt and covert racism which several posters don’t seem to know the difference or have used overt racism as the only type of racism that matters.

I agree there is no country that is racism-free but that doesn’t mean that there aren’t any issues whether covert or overt.

Curious as to how you’ve reached that conclusion? Based on what?

Why do you think a person who is embracing British culture needs to love EVERTHING about it?
Could she still be British if she did not like fish and chips? Is there a tick box of dishes she needs to enjoy to satisfy her aunt and get the approval she had a right to call herself British? If she is vegetarian would she still have to eat a full English one a week? Or she can't embrace British culture after all?

There isn't a racism free country out there. Which does not make UK some sort of heaven either, just because the situation is somewhat better than in some other places.

I kind of think that most of the time when people claim there is little racism in the UK, the speaker is a white British person who would not come across racism really anyways, so it's very easy to think people who experience racism exaggerate.

Ime teens aren't necessarily good judges. They're so worried about how things look/what people are thinking. Rather than what really matters. Ignore them.

Ask your niece. "Did I upset you?" Go from there.

To answer your question OP, if you offend someone, its not necessarily appropriate to apologise. In the case of your niece, and as offence was not intended, it may be worth clarifying. It sounds to me like you've tried too hard with your SIL.

Seriously, this is so unbelievably uptight, how do you people cope.

If someone is determined to find something to be offended about you’ll never stop them.

You can't be British and aspire to be British at the same time. At worst you were offensive, at best ridiculous. Just apologise and try not to say stupid things going forward.

it's a perfectly sensible comment to have made.

What's sensible about asking a British person if they aspire to be British?

Why should she like crumble just because she's British?