To think there's got to be at least a couple of MNers involved in the rioting ?

The rioters are far-right in what they’re doing: indiscriminate violence based on skin colour or religion. It’s not pearl-clutching to refer to them as the thugs they are.

I agree. I can’t think of a least likely demographic. The obsession with ascribing ‘far right’ views to people on here is frankly demented. Either you’re a proud Corbynite or you’re a Neo Nazi who is a danger to those around you, with nothing in between. The lack of any kind of complex thought makes them look barely adult.

You can call them what you like but you'd be wrong. Asylum seekers aren't illegal. It's not illegal to claim asylum. Illegal immigrants are those who have outstayed their visa.

Obviously there is nothing funny about people being hurt. The point is, it's ridiculous of the OP to suggest it's Mumsnetters out there doing the stabbing and rioting.

I'll stick with illegal immigrant thanks.

These fireworks being thrown at police and protestors is horrendous. This is not a protest just mindless violence by drug fuelled thugs with nothing but hate in their heads .

They’re rioting in my city tonight. Overwhelming amount of women there screaming at the police and the anti protestors.

I did watch a livesteam on tiktok of some of the rioting and looting. There were a few mums out and involved with little ones in pushchairs!

edit I can point you to an Amnesty report from Autumn last which covers this question in quite good detail if you would genuinely like to know more on this specifically q. This might serve better than an enormous post here, since what i’ve typed is already big 😂

Similarly with some other resources providing context for eg: the apparent uneven balance of single male asylum seekers, etc. I don’t know how it works with posting links here but if it is permitted and you would like it, please let me know.

Ultimately, and for the sake of brevity, I think we can be frank about admitting that neither of us is going to change our overall perspective based on this conversation, which is ok. But I think it’s hugely important for both to be able to listen and take away facts from conversations like this. I firmly agree with you that asylum seekers should not ‘take away’ resources from established populations (I believe that they need not, either, with better governance). I can accept your perspective that there is a lot around UK immigration policy that needs be made far more transparent. I think that immigration, legal or not, and asylum issues are often conflated deliberately by bad faith actors and also by those in power for whom it is a handy distraction from an unwillingness or inability to resolve issues.

Ultimately, I think that, since the UK actually hosts less than 1% of the global refugee population, it is fair enough for the answer to “why are they here” to be “because we were there”, both in the sense of Britain’s colonial and military past, but also in the sense of the benefits our country has enjoyed by being the default language for global trade and industry. It’s not unreasonable to realise how a combination of both of these things makes the country an attractive prospect for people. What I will say, is that I think the ‘myth’of the UK being a tolerant, prosperous and welcoming place to rebuild a life has been hugely disestablished in recent years. Personally I think this is both a huge shame, and something for us to collectively feel shame for. Perspectives can, will, and do differ :)

First the government need to invest heavily in getting asylum seekers processed as quickly as possible. They can't work and are housed by the tax payer while they wait for their claim to go through.

Secondly, those on the small boats are only a tiny percentage of immigrants coming to the UK.

Third, there's been severe underinvestment in infrastructure by the government which isn't the fault of either asylum seekers or immigrants.

The asylum seekers are housed in often deprived areas with little support. They can't work, have very little money and are often traumatised.

The main problem is the amount of approved immigrants the government lets in annually. They are here as students or to fill roles in places like the NHS and the hospitality sector.

In order to cut down on immigration, the government need to push up wages so that Brits want to do those jobs and invest in training so that citizens have the necessary skills. Too many people go to university when they could be trained up.

I read Mners & instantky thought minors, either kids or arthur scargill doing his rounds. I really need my sleep!
A note off a colleague, Greek colleague, we voted for brexit to stop europeans coming in and "stealing our jobs" so now they recruit from non european countries & i guess occasionally you get 1 bad apple. Luckily i live in a sleepy town who haven't noticed, the 1 troublemaker i met told me he thought kier starma was nest buddys with jimmy saville. (Kier 60, jimmy would be 98... would you buddy up with a creepy guy 38 years your senior) i switched off at that point.
Anyway, bedtime for me. Night all.

No interest in rioting until I saw that you can get free greggs..... got my balaclava ready for tomorrow. Just hope there is some sausage rolls left.

Seeking asylum.

They are most definately illegal immigrants when they arrive. Get smuggled into a country with no documents illegally. What would you call it?

And the vast majority of people do go to much closer countries.

Which brings us back to the initial issues that are seen by those speaking out against uncontrolled immigration. Not just idiots chanting or throwing bricks about.

We have an appalling housing stock for a great number of social tenants, We have issues accessing medical and dental help, these men may be young and healthy now, but will get older, have medical issues and add further strain.

We do have a major clash of of cultures in towns with large amounts of asylum seekers. I have witnessed & spoken directly to young women being hassled or made uncomfortable by their behaviour.

Entering the job black market would that not be another reason that resident brits would be against their arrival?

These are not unreasonable concerns, but they have not been heard or addressed. Often people have not spoken out or been branded racist for doing so. Having a Nationalistic point of view and wanting to put the needs of the British population (of all colours) first should not be seen as racist.

Plenty of women looting as well as throwing objects at the police.

They're not illegal immigrants if they're seeking asylum.

There are two reasons.

1. People have friends or family already here. It is much easier to settle in a foreign country if you have someone you are close to who will help you.
2. They have heard it is far easier to work illegally in the UK, which it is. Enforcement of laws around this are very lax and have been for years and we have no national identity card.
3. They have heard from traffickers and others that the UK is a good place to settle. The recent violence might have changed that view.

I would have thought that was obvious. Better opportunities and better style of living. When you pay a smuggler you don't always get a choice where you go but those coming to the UK either speak English, have a family connection or just want to come to Britain as they've heard it's a great place to live.

Because we don't have ID it's easier to get lost in the black job market as well.

Why? Why is the West and in particular the UK the destination of choice? There has to be any number of safe Countries more in line with their beliefs and lifestyles.

You'd be stuck in a tent in a refugee camp in Pakistan. Those paying people smugglers want to get to the West.

I suspect if you spoke to the people manning those signs and asked them to take an illegal immigrant into their spare bedroom until his asylum application is reviewed, you would get a resounding answer of no.

I accept your point on travel to the UK. However as Pakistan is considered a safe Country, wouldn't it be a better choice for all the family, rather than a death defying transport by people smugglers?

What do you make of their signs?

Unrealistic.