Michael Jackson

Morally, absolutely not. Legally is a different matter I would think.

When you look back through the thread that’s exactly what several posters have argued. That everyone ‘knows’ Jackson is guilty, so the not guilty verdict is somehow irrelevant and the comparison is with Saville. This exchange from upthread is an example:

Q: Also was Jimmy Saville ever convicted?

A: No. He was dead by the time the scandal broke.

Response: Which was kind of my point- the fact there was no conviction did not mean he was not a dangerous pedo. Many rich and famous get away with the worst crimes because their money protects them, and MJ was no different.

Saville was never tried. Jackson was and found not guilty because the evidence didn’t support a conviction. Regardless of guilt or innocence they are two entirely different things.

He wasn't attracted to her because she looked older. He wanted her because she was younger and could be groomed and moulded into who he wanted her to be.

I believe his victims.

For those who think he never sexually abused them I think even without sexual abuse the relationships with the boys were still extremely damaging and traumatic for the boys, grooming without the sex, smothering those boys in intimacy, making them his world, acting like the sun shined out of them and then dropping them for the next little boy...so it's not even much better if you believe MJs version of events.

Do people see grooming behaviour as ok as long as it doesn't lead to sexual abuse?

Same here.

Yeah, right

I don’t see any bitchy comment, simply stating a fact.

I think you just did then.

Sorry, I didn't see the bit were I made a bitchy comment about you?

No, and neither was OJ.

Juries can be as blind and biased as the posters on this thread.

Wasn’t found guilty though was he?

Yes, MJ himself told the world he slept in a bed with little boys - only of a particular age range of his preference, clearly, and not little girls. That is perfectly normal behavious for a grown man to do, according to some on this thread. Oh, he had a difficult childhood, he was just a childlike man.... who grabbed his crotch and did pelvic thrusts as part of his act. Well, perhaps it's not normal... but there is no "proof" that he abused them, you say.

Was there ever proof any high profile person accused sexually abused their victims? Even the adult women who Harvey Weinstein abused had only their stories versus his, and some back-up provided by the sheer number of them. I believe if MJ was still alive those boys now adults could have got together and created a case that would have been far more damning and contained far more evidence to back them up.

There was enough circumstantial evidence gathered from the ranch to paint a very clear picture - a tonne more than in HW's case.

I won't bother listing it. It's been listed in this thread. It's been listed in some of the articles linked - that are apparently not good enough sources. Hahahaha.

Ten little boys at least have said MJ sexually abused them. People accept Saville abused his victims, but no number is enough for them to believe MJ did. It is very odd.

Almost as odd as believing a middle aged man was just being childlike having little boys over for slumber parties, in his ranch with the pornography he showed them, the pictures of naked little boys, the secret rooms, and the bell rigged to ring to warn him someone else was heading towards them. Oh, and the testimony of the abused - which is only believed when you're not a fan of the perpetrator, apparently.

@Hairyfairy01 but you're sharing a Martin Bashir clip!!

I've completely gone off Brad Pitt after reading so much of this stuff.

No I don't, it was "weird" the way Michael approached him was the word he used not inappropriate, I got that wrong. He still says that Michael did nothing to him and that he would speak up if he ever thought anything was wrong. It still doesn't change my opinion. I think Macauley was his cover so he could say well look I never did anything to him so how could I be a paedophile?

YANBU, he was a paedophile. Cannot listen to him at all.

That’s not my benchmark, my benchmark is the boys who said they shared his bed and he sexually abused them.

With the wealth of evidence against him why do you think he wasn’t found guilty? What in your opinion went wrong with the justice system?

@Mirabai but he had him in his bed and if that's your benchmark for being a nonce them you should probably disbelieve Culkin don't you think?

@ChishiyaBat I've not seen that interview, do you have a link?

Also Macauley himself admitted in an interview that his relationship with Michael was inappropriate.
Like no shit, he was a grooming piece of shit nonce!

It'a so damaging for victims of historical sexual abuse that people spout this nonsense so freely.

And that’s why I’m angry there still has been no reckoning.

Caulkin was famous though - so MJ would be less likely to target him. And I wonder if MJ identified with him as a fellow child star.

I just don't understand how people can defend his actions!
@ChishiyaBat
Nope I don't understand it either, the excuses people make are insane.
He committed his crimes in plain sight, there's not another person on earth who could go on tv and admit to loving sleepovers with children and not come to the conclusion that he was a pedophile.
It'a so damaging for victims of historical sexual abuse that people spout this nonsense so freely.

I think he used Macauley to show the world how harmless, pure and wholesome he was, when in reality he was a filthy nonce!

The fact thinks he’s entitled to sleeping in beds with other people’s kids, it’s normal, and is totally unaware of how wrong - are big waving red flags in themselves.