Michael Jackson

I think that's a fair and balanced way of looking at it.

People are of course free not to listen to his music but he's dead and I don't see why anyone who does want to should be stopped from doing so.

I haven’t seen the recent documentary but last time there was a thread on here about mj I looked up about trial etc and based on the facts, I think he acted very much like a guilty person and imo he almost certainly was. I was never a big fan of his music although I liked a few songs but I can’t hear it now without getting creeped out.
When you read the comments here (or on any of the mj threads that come up quite frequently) though, it’s clear that some people are able to appreciate his music regardless of what he may have done and a lot of people don’t believe he’s guilty at all ,so it’s not surprising to me that he hasn’t been “cancelled “ (I don’t even know how that would be possible. For one, people have hard copies like records and cd’s and it would be impossible to stop them from sharing them). I am surprised about the musical though.
Its my personal belief that he was so good at grooming people to believe he was just innocent and childlike and people were out to get him and take advantage of him etc and so clever about insulating himself to any possible accusations, that even now he still has a lot of people fooled.

Only Elvis can match how much MJ was idolised and I would say MJ more so as his appeal is worldwide and all generations can appreciate his talent and enjoy (or enjoyed/appreciated) his performances

he was found innocent but I do believe personally he was guilty

His unmatched talent for performance and creating music can’t just be wiped out because of the huge impact he had and the influence he still has. Seeing videos of him as a small child you knew that he was incrediably special that can’t be destroyed by reputation

i think for many they just do not want to accept

I was surprised a few years ago very soon after a very damming documentary that was highly publicised being in the famous Groucho Club (a friends invite) and Working Day and Night was played and their was an air of excitement a few songs along and Billie Jean was played and the place went wild. His music still does this, many of us (including myself) can remember his performances and block out the awful things he did

I hate Billie Jean.

Quite like Human Nature though, and most of the Jackson 5’s stuff.

Shame really because Anothrr Rock n Roll Christmas was a great song

Because it was a serious attempt to undermine the credibility of MJ’s victims.

Because he was one of the best artists that has ever lived. He was groundbreaking. I also think he had an almost myth like, fantasy quality about him which distances people from seeing him as an abuser unlike say Saville or Glitter.

I have no idea if he was guilty or not. But you can't cancel someone with that much talent and influence on music and popular culture.

Whoever funded it doesn't change the fact the content in the documentary wasn't to "big" MJ up, it was to look at evidence, transcripts, timelines, etc (that wasn't just made up out of thin air) which contradicted Finding Neverland.

True. And I think we can all do without Stairway to Heaven on a digerdoo but MJ is more obstinate addiction.

Totally agree with you!

People did talk about Savile - I used to work for a newspaper where the subeditors would correct spellings saying “it’s Savile with one L - because he’s going to one hell when he dies”. Everyone in the media knew.

As I said the objection is that Sony owns his catalogue. So it’s basically a piece of PR.

Because people would rather listen to Billie Jean than any old rubbish sung by Gary Glitter. It’s so much easier to cancel a naff Glam Rocker from the past, same as Savile, Rolf Harris and Stuart Hall. Who’s upset that they can’t watch those old creeps on TV anymore?

No one cares to listen to “Tie me kangaroo down sport” accompanied by a wobble board, no one is interested in watching a three legged race from a dumb 1970s game show.

But Jacko’s music is so catchy, let’s all go and watch the West End show and forget about how he fooled everyone.

The documentary itself is an example of media corruption. Sony is ultimately responsible for funding, at a distance, a documentary to protect their 3/4 billion investment in the MJ catalogue.

The railway station that supposedly wasn’t built is old hat - there were several stations built along the track at different times.

The material found at his Neverland ranch, as posted on the former thread linked above, shows unequivocally that he was guilty. In any event his interviews with Louis Theroux convey out of his own mouth his complete lack of boundaries and total want of understanding as to why this presented any kind of problem whatsoever. The very least you can say about him is that he was a danger to children.

He was also an exceptionally talented artist. Others before him in the twentieth-century canon - whether artistic, music, literary, etc. - also had dubious views: a lot of fascists in the early C20 for one, and proclivities back in the 80s - Bowie, Wyman et al - which are to say the least deeply problematic. One doesn't preclude the other. The work of the Lost Prophets and Gary Gutter has likely died the same death it otherwise would have done, because it was of a moment that's now passed and it simply wasn't very good.

There is a lot of commentary about Huw Edwards in the light of this week's news, and the fact that the 'nuance' of his multi-faceted persona somehow requires 'debate' (about what?) and dissection of whether it's possible to be a talented broadcast journalist and a paedophile (it is).

But what of that? News by its very nature is tomorrow's chip paper: it's not designed to endure (very fortunately, in a much-belated irony, for Edwards himself). Likewise, Max Clifford. Who remembers that name now?

The quality and nature/genre of the work is what endures.

I agree, there is a lot of money at stake given the quality and length of MJ's musical career. Possibly also a lot of questions around how these kids were put in this situation in the first place. The BBC is being absolutely hammered regarding the access Saville had to kids under their watch, I'm sure there are quite a few uncomfortable people who were around MJ at the time that don't want similar questions directed at them.

What's wrong with you! 😒

Is the objection here that Sony and his family knew something happened ?

The documentary didn't have an aire of "we ❤️ MJ" to it, nor was it full of superfans bigging him up. It just took the claims made in Finding Neverland and offered a different viewpoint, different evidence, and highlighted the media corruption surrounding it.

I'm going to watch it again as it's been a while to refresh my memory, but a lot of it did question some of the claims made, such as (I think it was the railway) hadn't been built yet. I'll re-watch it.

Keep telling yourself that

Yep.

Yeah because he created that image.

Exactly, so Glitter should have written catchier tunes and then we could forget about all the child sexual abuse