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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To contact this jazz band and tell them to stop using this word?

285 replies

FauxWhiteOrchid · 03/08/2024 10:25

There’s a local jazz event taking place soon and the bio describes the band as “Dixieland”. I remember the Dixie Chicks apologising and changing their name.

The word derives from the American South and is also used in a Confederate song. Here’s the full Wikipedia page for “Dixie”. Basically, its usage is racist.

I was surprised to see the word at all but also not surprised as I live in a very white Reform/Tory voting area.

AIBU to contact the band and ask them to change their description? Or leave them alone? I know what the reaction will be if I do contact them: just music blah blah been a traditional word for this style of jazz blah blah world gone mad woke blah joy thief etc. But I see no reason to use this word in this day and age.

WWYD?

OP posts:
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Iwasafool · 03/08/2024 15:37

godmum56 · 03/08/2024 13:21

another vote to ban oranges, think of the Orange Free State!

Good point. I'm Catholic, my "orange" mother liked nothing more than a orange parade. I used to ask her why as basically they wanted her children's blood but she just said it was her heritage and she loved it. No idea why she married a Catholic when Ian Paisley seemed to be her pin up.

Orange has some bad associations for me and that's not even mentioning that phase in the 60s when everything seemed to be orange, clothes, wallpaper, Tango, make up, everything, Well actually I just mentioned it!

Iwasafool · 03/08/2024 15:28

Purplebunnie · 03/08/2024 12:39

I agree, ban oranges, the give me migraines as well

Hi fellow sufferer, people generally don't believe me so it is nice to meet someone who knows the pain of oranges although I'm sorry you suffer as well.

Shall we start a ban oranges campaign?

Iwasafool · 03/08/2024 15:24

BorsetshireBanality · 03/08/2024 12:00

I used to go to Jazz Festivals in the mid 90s, and any “Dixieland” jazz band would have been a small band of late-middle-aged white old fart types wearing waistcoats and straw boaters, with the obligatory trombonist. The same old shite music watered down and played by old codgers who got together at an adult education class somewhere in suburbia.

I’m mixed race and I used to think that these white men were appropriating what started out as a black/mixed race art form that originated in the American deep South, and watering it down for English suburbia, and found it mildly annoying/offensive. My white friends couldn’t get why I felt this way when I expressed this opinion!

It’s now 30 years later, and any audience for this music is dying out. At the same time “Dixie” is associated with brainless Donald Trump reporters and red-neck white supremacists.

Nowadays, I would rather be in the audience for young musicians being, playing something with more creativity and genuine improvisation. I wouldn’t waste my time telling a bunch of old farts they were a bunch of old farts! I’m saving my anger for the new breed of white supremacists who feel emboldened by the likes of Trump, Farage et al.

However OP, if you want to tell them why you find the term offensive, do it.

If you were going to Jazz Festivals 30 years ago you are probably a boring old fart yourself.

FarmFlowers · 03/08/2024 15:05

Why are you living in a white area, with white people if you look at them with such disdain?

Are you chained there? What sort of person is too weak to leave an area they despise? You must either be as weak as water, as dim as a badger's arse, or as pathetic as a broken umbrella if you live somewhere you pour such scorn on.
No, children, husband, work is not an excuse-pack them all up. people do, they move thousands of miles to get away from an area that they despise.

Or is that you like living there, taking advantage of it, while sneering at it?

I imagine you have very little else going on to make you feel superior and the only way you can get that feeling is by looking down on others and imagining yourself-and yes, it is all in your imagination-to be better.

No, don't tell them anything based on your research of reading a Wiki page. If you do, I hope they print out your email-complete with email address and have it posted on to t shirts.

Get a life!

ginasevern · 03/08/2024 15:00

@Genevieva

I agree with you. The term "Dixie" either relates to the Mason Dixon Line or possibly the French for ten, which is "dix". Dix was used on ten dollar bank notes in Louisiana and they became known as "dixies". The term soon came to mean the South in general. People are divided over which theory is right, but it is almost certain that one of them is.

AllMyExesWearRolexes · 03/08/2024 14:47

@NewGreenDuck
Close, but Mark Knopfler is the best guitarist ever

blueberryforest · 03/08/2024 14:02

I think you'd be better off minding your own business. I'd assume the band knows more about the music they play and how best to describe and promote it than you do. You'll only make yourself look foolish, imo, if you try to 'educate' them on this matter.

As an aside, I wouldn't use the band formerly known as The Dixie Chicks to inform any decision in my life.

Riapia · 03/08/2024 14:00

If the OP wishes to be offended then nobody has the right to prevent it.
Everyone should have the right to be offended. This doesn’t give her the right to try to force others to accept her beliefs.

MrHarleyQuin · 03/08/2024 13:54

Hakunatomato · 03/08/2024 12:10

There is a chain of chicken shops in London called Dixie Chicken. Perhaps you would like to contact them and TELL them to change their name. You bring a whole new level to recreational indignation. HTH.

Yeah, a random chicken shop does it so it must be ok. 🙄

NewGreenDuck · 03/08/2024 13:52

Rosscameasdoody · 03/08/2024 13:42

Nope. I associate it with the big bands of the 1930s and 40s. I associate it with the talents of people like Louis Armstrong, John Coltrane, Duke Ellington, Charlie Parker, Ella Fitzgerald, Billie Holiday.

And Count Basie, Oscar Peterson, Charlie Parker, Lester Young, Artie Shaw, and, as I mentioned above Django Reinhardt. To name but a few. Just edited to say you mentioned Charlie Parker. Sorry!

Rosscameasdoody · 03/08/2024 13:49

Ilovelurchers · 03/08/2024 13:37

Millions of Americans also have no problem with Donald Trump as their president. Doesn't mean we have to agree.

It doesn’t mean we all have to agree. I don’t find anything offensive about the band labelling themselves Dixieland as it’s descriptive of a genre of jazz. I find the fact that the OP finds it offensive enough to warrant ‘telling’ the band to change the description bizarre and OTT, but she’s entitled to her opinion I suppose.

YankSplaining · 03/08/2024 13:49

Somepeoplearesnippy · 03/08/2024 12:52

I'm sure if we tracked the derivation of many words they would refer to things that would now be considered unacceptable but languages, like attitudes, are constantly evolving. Just because a word meant one thing 20 or 100 or 500 years ago doesn't mean it means the same thing now. It won't even mean the same thing in two different countries or even two different areas of the same country.

You can't erase history from language.

Case in point - “fag” in Britain 150 years ago, “fag” in Britain now, and “fag” in the US.

mondaytosunday · 03/08/2024 13:47

My sister's best friend (in the US) is called Dixie. No one thinks anything of it. She's not from the south or any connection to it.

Rosscameasdoody · 03/08/2024 13:46

Ilovelurchers · 03/08/2024 13:43

All of you who are spitting venom at OP for objecting to a word which she feels has racist connotations - do you feel this about all language?

Is it, in your eyes, ever appropriate to say a word should not be used because it is racist?

Or is absolutely anything fine, however offensive, because we shouldn't "police language"?

(In my opinion, words are the most powerful thing in all the world, and the most capable of doing harm. If we fail to accept that, and our responsibility to use them kindly and compassionately, we are truly lost, I think......)

It’s a matter of interpretation. There’s enough racist language to police without wading in on something that isn’t intended to be offensive, but descriptive of a certain established genre of music. Offence, in this case, is in the eye of the beholder. If you look hard enough for something to be offended by, you’ll usually find it.

WaverOfSticks · 03/08/2024 13:45

Ilovelurchers · 03/08/2024 13:43

All of you who are spitting venom at OP for objecting to a word which she feels has racist connotations - do you feel this about all language?

Is it, in your eyes, ever appropriate to say a word should not be used because it is racist?

Or is absolutely anything fine, however offensive, because we shouldn't "police language"?

(In my opinion, words are the most powerful thing in all the world, and the most capable of doing harm. If we fail to accept that, and our responsibility to use them kindly and compassionately, we are truly lost, I think......)

You're getting all that from people telling her that "Dixieland" is different from Dixie?

Wow...

DodoTired · 03/08/2024 13:45

Why is it your problem?

Growlybear83 · 03/08/2024 13:44

I'm sure the band would immediately do as you tell them, OP. 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

Ilovelurchers · 03/08/2024 13:43

All of you who are spitting venom at OP for objecting to a word which she feels has racist connotations - do you feel this about all language?

Is it, in your eyes, ever appropriate to say a word should not be used because it is racist?

Or is absolutely anything fine, however offensive, because we shouldn't "police language"?

(In my opinion, words are the most powerful thing in all the world, and the most capable of doing harm. If we fail to accept that, and our responsibility to use them kindly and compassionately, we are truly lost, I think......)

YankSplaining · 03/08/2024 13:43

TunnocksOrDeath · 03/08/2024 12:08

They know. You don't need to tell them. However as the various sub-genres of Jazz are numerous and distinctive, and there isn't really a widely-recognisable alternative they might think it would be difficult to effectively market themselves if they dropped 'Dixieland'. They could use 'Trad Jazz' but it's not as widely understood by potential clients (weddings, anniversaries, fetes etc).

Exactly - how would a band playing Dixieland jazz be unaware of this controversy?! They don’t live under a rock.

Rosscameasdoody · 03/08/2024 13:42

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines.

Nope. I associate it with the big bands of the 1930s and 40s. I associate it with the talents of people like Louis Armstrong, John Coltrane, Duke Ellington, Charlie Parker, Ella Fitzgerald, Billie Holiday.

faffadoodledo · 03/08/2024 13:39

My parents were into this kind of jazz in the 1950s. I think they labelled it as 'trad' jazz.

Ilovelurchers · 03/08/2024 13:37

SaintHonoria · 03/08/2024 13:20

Millions of Americans have no problem with the word Dixie. It's odd that some woman in the U.K. does.

Farm Aid

%3D

Millions of Americans also have no problem with Donald Trump as their president. Doesn't mean we have to agree.

blackcherryconserve · 03/08/2024 13:37

Flumpie59 · 03/08/2024 10:55

Leave the band alone, I'm sure they don't mean any harm. Sadly we're now in a world full of haters, snowflakes and wokes and we're all too scared to use ANY words incase we ''offend'' someone.

This.

Rosscameasdoody · 03/08/2024 13:34

Somepeoplearesnippy · 03/08/2024 12:52

I'm sure if we tracked the derivation of many words they would refer to things that would now be considered unacceptable but languages, like attitudes, are constantly evolving. Just because a word meant one thing 20 or 100 or 500 years ago doesn't mean it means the same thing now. It won't even mean the same thing in two different countries or even two different areas of the same country.

You can't erase history from language.

This. Good post.

Rosscameasdoody · 03/08/2024 13:32

I think with some things you have to distinguish between whether offence is intended or not. It’s not the actual meaning of the word ‘Dixieland’ but how it is interpreted and you’re taking offence where none is meant. This type of jazz was developed by black artists. Why would you think they would be offended by a white jazz band using the name as originally intended. I think there’s enough racism going on without going looking for things to fit your interpretation of it.

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