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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To contact this jazz band and tell them to stop using this word?

285 replies

FauxWhiteOrchid · 03/08/2024 10:25

There’s a local jazz event taking place soon and the bio describes the band as “Dixieland”. I remember the Dixie Chicks apologising and changing their name.

The word derives from the American South and is also used in a Confederate song. Here’s the full Wikipedia page for “Dixie”. Basically, its usage is racist.

I was surprised to see the word at all but also not surprised as I live in a very white Reform/Tory voting area.

AIBU to contact the band and ask them to change their description? Or leave them alone? I know what the reaction will be if I do contact them: just music blah blah been a traditional word for this style of jazz blah blah world gone mad woke blah joy thief etc. But I see no reason to use this word in this day and age.

WWYD?

OP posts:
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Confrontayshunme · 03/08/2024 11:12

As someone born in the US, I have had to explain to several people that the confederate flag is a symbol of oppression and slavery for black Americans. Also had to explain that wearing Native American clothing/headwear is really not okay. They all took it pretty well.

But in this case, I think they are referring to Dixieland, which is a style of music, rather than a specific reference to the area below the Mason Dixon line.

But there is no harm in messaging them to ask if they know.

GabriellaMontez · 03/08/2024 11:12

What will you suggest they change it to?

InsensibleMe · 03/08/2024 11:12

‘The Night They Drove old Dixie Down’. (Bob Dylan &) The Band. One of my favourite songs. I understand the context, it’s a song from the Confederate perspective about losing the Civil War. I wouldn’t call it racist.

iwfja · 03/08/2024 11:11

I'm not up on the history or the usage of the word Dixieland but if you think that it is offensive you could contact the band and put your point of view across politely.

I contacted a local tourist office where I live (not in the UK) to point out that Red Indian is offensive and would they please consider renaming their children's activity "Live a day in the life of a Red Indian" as something else (it involved shooting with a bow and arrow, sitting around a campfire, games in a teepee).
The whole activity was a bit problematic to be honest and I couldn't see the point of it in an area of Europe with its own culture and plenty of outdoor type activities.
They changed the name to "Indian Adventure" or something similar and a couple of years afterwards the activity was dropped entirely and replaced with archery.

NewGreenDuck · 03/08/2024 11:10

It's a particular type of jazz, originally from New Orleans, and made popular by Louis Armstrong, among others. Just as there are other types such as swing, cool, gypsy or be bop. A lot of the musicians playing that sort of jazz, in the US at least, would be black. Personally I think you should leave it alone.

NoSnowdrop · 03/08/2024 11:10

I was surprised to see the word at all but also not surprised as I live in a very white Reform/Tory voting area.

FFS

yeah sure you are Hmm

sunsetsandboardwalks · 03/08/2024 11:10

Pharticle · 03/08/2024 11:08

Why so angry at people who just don’t want to offend others? Surely that’s a good and nice thing to do

"Dixieland" describes a style of jazz music though - what's offensive about it?

MassiveSaladEater · 03/08/2024 11:08

This reply has been deleted

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Pharticle · 03/08/2024 11:08

Flumpie59 · 03/08/2024 10:55

Leave the band alone, I'm sure they don't mean any harm. Sadly we're now in a world full of haters, snowflakes and wokes and we're all too scared to use ANY words incase we ''offend'' someone.

Why so angry at people who just don’t want to offend others? Surely that’s a good and nice thing to do

sunsetsandboardwalks · 03/08/2024 11:07

"Dixie" and "Dixieland" are two different things, surely?

Astonmaid · 03/08/2024 11:06

Dixieland (not Dixie) is the well-known name for a style of jazz music. You're being daft.

Saltedbutter · 03/08/2024 11:05

Comtesse · 03/08/2024 11:03

“Tell” them to change their name - massive overreach on your part.

Ask? Maybe. Suggest? Perhaps. Tell? Nope!

This!

Also, a word can have more than one meaning. I’m sure their connotation is purely the style of jazz.

Unless I’ve massively misunderstood, I think you may need to unclench!

OneCoatWonder · 03/08/2024 11:04

OP I think you're wrong to write to tell them it's racist because it is up for debate and - though in decline - still widely used as self-identification. But you can tell them it's a contentious word and highlight the loaded nature of it. It's not a clear cut picture though like you are saying it is- language isn't hard fixed in its meaning or associations. Even the most racist of words are often reclaimed by those groups who suffered the abuse. So it's just not clear cut like you're indicating it is.

Personally, I think the use of the term in music is one step removed from the Dixie debate generally and still very widely used and accepted by fans and makers of that style of music, so it's not the issue you're thinking it is.

Comtesse · 03/08/2024 11:03

“Tell” them to change their name - massive overreach on your part.

Ask? Maybe. Suggest? Perhaps. Tell? Nope!

Genevieva · 03/08/2024 11:01

A few typos. *game not gene.

Genevieva · 03/08/2024 10:59

I’ve never heard of this problem and am still not clear on precisely what it is. I’ve read your link (to the word Dixie not Dixieland) and, aside from a vague association with the Confederacy period in American history, it doesn’t explain. Clicking on links within your page reveals that the name itself comes from the Mason-Dixon Line, which was named after two surveyors and astronomers, one of whom was Jeremiah Dixon and the word Dixieland which refers to the geographical area south of that line and a style of music associated with that geographical area. Jeremiah Dixon had nothing to do with the slave trade, racism or anything objectionable. Nor did his colleague Mason. Are you able to precisely articulate what the source of the caused is, who it rightfully upsets (not you as you have no skin in this gene apart from a little more background knowledge - you can only be offended on behalf of others unless you are from the American South) and what alternative term the group could use that their audience of jazz lovers would understand (again not you - you’ve seen a poster, not attended a concert).

I think there are inherent dangers in labelling words as more harmful than they need to be and therefor tainting everyone who uses them for their original purpose ( in this case a well inform descriptor of a type of music) with unwarranted accusations of being inherently racist because there are some white Tory voters in your area. These prejudices suggest a bit of holier than thou in your attitude. Maybe start by assuming the best in people you don’t know.

Flumpie59 · 03/08/2024 10:55

Leave the band alone, I'm sure they don't mean any harm. Sadly we're now in a world full of haters, snowflakes and wokes and we're all too scared to use ANY words incase we ''offend'' someone.

twomanyfrogsinabox · 03/08/2024 10:51

I think most people would just take the bio as giving an idea of the type of Jazz they play. Black and white musicians played dixieland jazz, it's just a description of a style of music. What would you call that style of music instead? If you can think of something equally descriptive but more woke by all means suggest it.

FauxWhiteOrchid · 03/08/2024 10:50

BunfightBetty · 03/08/2024 10:43

Is there an alternative name for the type of music they play? Dixieland Jazz is a particular style of music and people know what they’re getting from that title. Would there be an alternative term that is similarly obvious? As if so, I can’t see what objection there would be to changing the name as the term is now deemed offensive.

It would help if there was an alternative name. But Dixie is ingrained in many people’s minds as a style of jazz but the meaning of the word isn’t.

OP posts:
Zusammen · 03/08/2024 10:49

There’s some debate about whether the word Dixie is offensive. It’s still widely used in the USA. Just because one band decided not to use the word any more, doesn’t mean everyone has agreed it’s offensive. Honestly I think you should mind your own business, preaching is never welcomed.

BunfightBetty · 03/08/2024 10:43

Is there an alternative name for the type of music they play? Dixieland Jazz is a particular style of music and people know what they’re getting from that title. Would there be an alternative term that is similarly obvious? As if so, I can’t see what objection there would be to changing the name as the term is now deemed offensive.

FauxWhiteOrchid · 03/08/2024 10:42

MsPavlichenko · 03/08/2024 10:39

Is it the band’s name or is it a description of the type of jazz that they play?

It’s a description of the jazz.

OP posts:
MassiveSaladEater · 03/08/2024 10:40

Bigearringsbigsmile · 03/08/2024 10:36

I think you need to stop policing other people's language and concentrate on your own behaviour.

OP is not ‘policing’ anybody and hasn’t done anything wrong.

MsPavlichenko · 03/08/2024 10:39

Is it the band’s name or is it a description of the type of jazz that they play?

Bigearringsbigsmile · 03/08/2024 10:39

If you're basing your argument on Wikipedia pages here's another

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dixieland_jazz

Dixieland jazz - Wikipedia

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dixieland_jazz

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