Genuine question re pensioner fuel payment cut

Again, this is just getting stupid. Are we supposed to give out welfare payments to middle class people because their parents had a hard time in life? Where does it all end?

I can tell you right now, that when a Tory government finally gets back in (maybe 10 years from now?) they will have no interest in bringing back the fuel payments. Because everyone will have learned to manage fine without it, the sky will not have fallen in, and because the numbers of elderly people will have climbed to still higher heights and it will have become clear that the policy is no longer affordable. This payment will have to go sooner or later and would have been scrapped eventually regardness of which party was in power.

What do you mean, "affected"? They will lose the WFA for sure. It won't do them any harm. Their house is worth the thick end of a million quid. My parents are delightful people but they do not need welfare payments. And the government really really cannot afford to keep pissing welfare all over middle class people, sorry. The integenerational trauma arguments being made here are ridiculous.

I would have been outraged… and I am outraged that Labour have done this too - I am a Labour voting pensioner.

On MN there is a widespread belief that pensioners are mostly wealthy, not feeling the COLC at all, and can manage sky high winter bills and henceforth live on a dwindling income in real terms so the triple lock can be abandoned.

Good for you all with your wealthy cruise-going ILs…

Meanwhile, everyone I know is living frugally and quite fearful of the future.

I am not saying the WFP should be paid across the board, but the threshold hold is WAY too low. People in good occupational pensions, index linked public sector, big savings pots etc, all pay TAX. It ought to be easy peasy to set a threshold of income, identified through HMRC , above which the payment is not made.

Lots of pensioners are not enjoying comfortable incomes at all.

We weren’t feckless and greedy… lost if reasons;
If we bought flats or a house the most common thing to do was buy an endowment, at which point we were told that it would pay off the mortgage AND give us a sum for retirement. Then it all went tits up and many people were left with a shortfall on mortgage, never mind money for cruises.

Other people spent more than half their working life before 60 believing they would get a pension at 60. Then thought ‘ok I’ll work till 66’ but got ill or worn out , or dud last minute saving but couldn’t save enough

Many of us worked our whole employed lives with no employer contribution at all, until the last legal minute, at the lowest legal level.

Many of us just never earned much. No free childcare hours etc…

Had savings but lost to divorce

Many reasons.

Just because YOU know wealthy pensioners does not mean it’s the whole picture.

The threshold should not have been set so low.

My mum’s in her early 80’s she was brought up just after the war
her parents experienced the war and the aftermath was part of her childhood
so anyone in there 80’s will be affected by the aftermath of the war
there plenty of people in there 80’s so it’s not just a few

To be old enough to remember the aftermath of WWI, a person would be about 100 now. Realistically, how many people are we talking about here?

older people in their 80s and 90s, that even with savings, find difficult to go into their savings etc due to worries and anxieties or whatever reason as people at that age often can't change , some of them that currently use the fuel allowance to keep warm, will not use any other money instead even if they have it , some people at that age have fix ideas and it is very difficult to change them , they are not going to suddenly change, they will instead suffer the cold ang get ill, specially if they don't have enough family or support, or if they don't listen to the family."

@Itsrainingten Sorry but if they have the money and CHOOSE NOT TO USE IT for whatever reason, that's on them. I really don't care about their "fixed ideas" if they get ill because they're too stubborn to use their money and would.rather hoard it WTH should the taxpayer be covering the cost???

Honestly?

Let's see how you get on when you're in your 80s and you need money to cushion you against unexpected bills like a boiler replacement or a roof repair.

Not to mention the fact that you will need help with things that you could easily do yourself before,

Things like: a gardener, because you can't look after your small garden yourself beccause your mobility is bad, carers because you can't safely cook for yourself, a podiatrist to make home visits because you can't easily get out any more, taxi fares for hospital appointments that you need to attend, a cleaner because you need help, someone to do the shopping for you ............
and no, not all of these things are automatically covered by benefits

Do you have no idea about the life values of the older generation who lived through the aftermath of WW1 and then through WW2 - it was ingrained into each and every person to save, to recycle, to re-use, to economise, to protect their family( even at the cost of sending their children away so they were safe in WW2), to put community before self.

This generation are the last people who want to ask for government help - they see it as a shameful thing.

It seems that many of today's generation have no concept of the 'old-fashioned' values of pride, independence, community , personal sacrifice, not wanting to 'sponge off the state' .......
and just reduce everything to a monetary value.

And it seems that pensioners have no monetary value.

It'd only be 55p per pensioner per year, so hardly worth even thinking about.

It's all a numbers game. These figures sound big until you divided by the number of pensioners (12.6 million!)

Seriously. This is a ridiculous comparison. There is an actual WORLD of difference between spending every penny on Carribbean holidays (meaning you'd have nothing left to pay for care if you need it) and refusing to use your heating so as not to spend money and expecting the tax payer to foot the bill. Both are very selfish attitudes though.

I see it a lot too. Ironically their "kids" (or more likely grand kids) need the money now and would be grateful now, rather than having to wait for them to die! I think it comes from the mentality of the people from yesteryear, as per the "Mill on the Floss" book where there was a woman who had a front room with all her nice stuff in that no one was allowed to go into (even she never used it) and she had loads of "posh" tablewear in a cupboard that was never used, and for poorly paraphrase her, she said something like, "people will know what nice stuff I had when I'm dead". Very strange way of thinking.

I've a neighbour who is very well off, rattling around in a six bedroom house on his own, a new BMW every couple of years, etc. Really struggling at the moment as he needs a hip replacement and has been limping around for 2 or 3 years now, still waiting for the op. I suggested he went private in passing conversation when he was whingeing about waiting lists and he went ballistic - got both barrels of "I've paid tax all my life" etc etc. He could easily afford a private op but would rather wait for 2/3/4 years for it to be done on the NHS, in pain all that time, the pain stopping him doing what he wants such as holidays, gardening, etc. I just don't get it at all. Saw him the other day and he was almost foaming at the mouth about the loss of the WFA that he doesn't actually need, but again "I've paid tax all my life" entitlement.

Get accused of deprivation of assets to avoid care costs. You can't win.

If I had a pound for how many times I hear these elderly people spouting out the " I've paid tax all my life", I would be a very rich woman !! Maybe we do a similar job ? ! I think people who don't have to listen to this kind of entitled behaviour all day just don't get it but it's rife. had a bloke on friday ranting about loss of WFA. Between him and his younger wife they have 2.5 k a month coming in ( earnings, pensions, disability benefits ) living in a small council bungalow, cheap and easy to heat and very low rent. They had over £550 a week to live on after rent paid( and also getting half their council tax paid ) yet still ranting.

I don't remember quite the outrage when child benefit payments were stripped from everyone earning over £50k. So a couple could earn £49k each, bringing in a very healthy joint income and keep it, whereas a single parent earning just over £50k would lose it. There are always winners and losers and hard choices to be made. I think universal WFPs should stop. But I think the threshold they're proposing is too low. That said, if Labour focus their efforts on bringing down the cost of utilities for everyone then it's a price worth paying. Maybe the reduced cost of gas and electricity will even surpass the one off payment, but benefit everyone rather than just pensioners.

Dont spend money on themselves to save for their kids...........get moaned at
Spend money on themselves............get moaned at

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-13211785/My-inheritance-drunk-straw-coconut-Caribbean-selfish-resenting-boomer-parents-burning-money-mine.html

Yes I can identify with this. I see a lot of older people in my job, many have a lot of savings they just don't want to use it. they don't want to pay for care, for a gardener, cleaner etc. They don't go out anywhere or spend much . They just seem to want to leave a load of money for their kids. They all want to claim what non means tested benefit's they can because' they are 'struggling'. Then when you offer to do a benefit check for them to check for anything means tested they go all quiet as they all have 100k + stashed away.

I see it a lot too. Ironically their "kids" (or more likely grand kids) need the money now and would be grateful now, rather than having to wait for them to die! I think it comes from the mentality of the people from yesteryear, as per the "Mill on the Floss" book where there was a woman who had a front room with all her nice stuff in that no one was allowed to go into (even she never used it) and she had loads of "posh" tablewear in a cupboard that was never used, and for poorly paraphrase her, she said something like, "people will know what nice stuff I had when I'm dead". Very strange way of thinking.

I've a neighbour who is very well off, rattling around in a six bedroom house on his own, a new BMW every couple of years, etc. Really struggling at the moment as he needs a hip replacement and has been limping around for 2 or 3 years now, still waiting for the op. I suggested he went private in passing conversation when he was whingeing about waiting lists and he went ballistic - got both barrels of "I've paid tax all my life" etc etc. He could easily afford a private op but would rather wait for 2/3/4 years for it to be done on the NHS, in pain all that time, the pain stopping him doing what he wants such as holidays, gardening, etc. I just don't get it at all. Saw him the other day and he was almost foaming at the mouth about the loss of the WFA that he doesn't actually need, but again "I've paid tax all my life" entitlement.