Genuine question re pensioner fuel payment cut

So because more pensioners are wealthy, the non wealthy, on 11k a year, shouldn't be looked after?

This also disproportionately affects women who are more likely to only have a state pension.

I'm not saying get rid of free bus passes. I'm saying raise the age at which one qualifies.

@2dogsandabudgie

"Free travel over 60 is only in London I thought. Not sure about Scotland, but elsewhere in England it is for over 65s only. Definitely over 65 where I live in the south east."

Ah I didn't know that. Makes sense.
London needs to change to 65 then, in my opinion.

People ARE outraged about it. Sure, the wealthiest don't need it but once again it's the ones in the middle who will suffer. Work hard all your life, build up a modest pension pot that takes you slightly over the cut off point and yoi are screwed. Might as well have sat on your arse with your hand held out, you'll be in clover.
Stealing from the elderly? I hope Kier is very proud of himself

I support removing it and am Labour voter.

What is needed is a targeted programme to help poorer pensioners make their homes more energy efficient and/or downsize to cheaper to heat housing, not flinging money randomly at people regardless of income or need in the hope it will help some afford to to heat drafty inefficient housing.

The other way to do it is similar to child benefit remove it from better off people via the taxation system.

Well good for you if you don't need it, but many pensioners do.

But not from age 60. At least bring it in line with retirement age.

What about the pensioners who don't receive pension credits because they are just slightly over the cut off point, do you think it's fair for them?

@Macaroni46 in most parts of the country free bus passes only kick in once you reach pension age (or the corresponding pension age for a woman born on the same day). You also need to bear in mind that free bus passes encourage people whose driving skills may be deteriorating to make fewer journeys by car.. It's not just a financial thing.

I agree re bus passes. My partner has just turned 60. Fit and well. Working FT, enjoying it and no intention of retiring. Yet has free travel!

Do they bother using it though? Because most in their position would be driving. Or cycling if they are fit and eco-conscious. Many who are entitled to a bus pass don’t bother applying.

We have a joint gross income of 80k, no mortgage and the winter fuel allowance was totally unnecessary and needed to go. Both past retirement.

https://www.jrf.org.uk/uk-poverty-2024-the-essential-guide-to-understanding-poverty-in-the-uk#:~:text=Children%20have%20consistently%20had%20the,%2F95%20to%202021%2F22.

The age group most likely to be in poverty in the UK is children. Pensioners are the joint least likely to be in poverty. Why they should get additional benefits (state pension apart) which others don’t get is beyond me. We are storing up problems for decades to come by prioritising older people over younger ones. There is absolutely nothing left wing about it.

Free travel over 60 is only in London I thought. Not sure about Scotland, but elsewhere in England it is for over 65s only. Definitely over 65 where I live in the south east.

We've had years of people declaring that they of course, donate it because they can afford it. At the time, it was also cheaper to just pay it to everybody than to means test it, as there wasn't any Real Time assessment or payment structure in place.

Now, due to the HMRC/UC setup and rollout, there's a comparatively cheap way of setting up automated payments on the basis of income and entitlements. It's therefore a completely different environment than in earlier years, making it significantly cheaper to assess and pay to those most in need. I seriously doubt that had the conservatives won another election that they'd have kept it in place, particularly as they had already brought in laws that allowed them to access the banking details of everybody - including pensioners - under the guise of making sure that unmarried mums and dole claimants weren't getting extra undeclared income from somewhere.

So, you have years of people saying 'we don't need it, it should be means tested and we donate ours', a computerised system put into place by the previous government that allows for this to be done at a far lower cost than previously, changes in Law made by the previous government to make it possible to check what money is going into pensioners' bank accounts - and the fiscal necessity to make savings.

One of the rare occasions that the conservatives thought ahead and got everything all in place ready for a less politically risky/Leopards Eating Faces moment (that didn't arrive for them in the end) - and now people are complaining about it.

Not all pensioners need the winter fuel payment. My dad didn’t. He had 4 private pensions plus his state pension. Those that are on pension credits won’t be affected and rightly so but don’t forget ex pats in Spain get the winter fuel allowance and that’s ridiculous

The bus pass should definitely stay free and available, it’s essential for those with poor mobility and low incomes to be able to get around. Our local shuttle bus covers the run from hospital to town to supermarket and is invariably stuffed with people older than me.

I think I would have been delighted with this cut, whoever thought of it. We need to find sustainable cuts that don't cause hardship, to fund areas where lack of money is causing massive, long term issues.

We need money in schools. Not funding schools properly has lead to a generation of children who were not given a chance to reach their potential - that is going to cost the country billions for decades as these people go through adulthood and need more support than they should have done

I agree re bus passes. My partner has just turned 60. Fit and well. Working FT, enjoying it and no intention of retiring. Yet has free travel!

I would have been outraged… and I am outraged that Labour have done this too - I am a Labour voting pensioner.

On MN there is a widespread belief that pensioners are mostly wealthy, not feeling the COLC at all, and can manage sky high winter bills and henceforth live on a dwindling income in real terms so the triple lock can be abandoned.

Good for you all with your wealthy cruise-going ILs…

Meanwhile, everyone I know is living frugally and quite fearful of the future.

I am not saying the WFP should be paid across the board, but the threshold hold is WAY too low. People in good occupational pensions, index linked public sector, big savings pots etc, all pay TAX. It ought to be easy peasy to set a threshold of income, identified through HMRC , above which the payment is not made.

Lots of pensioners are not enjoying comfortable incomes at all.

We weren’t feckless and greedy… lost if reasons;
If we bought flats or a house the most common thing to do was buy an endowment, at which point we were told that it would pay off the mortgage AND give us a sum for retirement. Then it all went tits up and many people were left with a shortfall on mortgage, never mind money for cruises.

Other people spent more than half their working life before 60 believing they would get a pension at 60. Then thought ‘ok I’ll work till 66’ but got ill or worn out , or dud last minute saving but couldn’t save enough

Many of us worked our whole employed lives with no employer contribution at all, until the last legal minute, at the lowest legal level.

Many of us just never earned much. No free childcare hours etc…

Had savings but lost to divorce

Many reasons.

Just because YOU know wealthy pensioners does not mean it’s the whole picture.

The threshold should not have been set so low.

I agree with this. Some of the comments I have read on MN recently about this cut are disgusting. The middle class on here have no idea how much a lot of pensioners struggle. People now wanting the £10 Christmas bonus scrapped and bus passes scrapped.

I thought we were supposed to look after the vulnerable in our society. How can anyone be so cruel to begrudge an elderly person an extra £10 at Christmas or a free bus pass to be able to get out and about. Surely elderly people deserve to have a little bit of extra comfort in their twilight years.

Yes the WFA should be means tested, but for those pensioners who are just above the threshold to get pension credit, they are really going to struggle this winter. Elderly people feel the cold so much more, they can't help that. There will be a lot more hospital admissions this year.

They’ve got five years to prove that all the booing, hissing and negativity they showed in opposition is backed by better ideas rather than just bile.
We are pensioners, in the line for losing the payment because our joint income is around £35K. I don’t mind missing out if the money is used to support something constructive like Sure Start or useful apprenticeships.
But I’m also pleased they kept the two child benefit ruling, and hope that continues.

You're just indulging in a rather silly anti-Labour rant, as evidenced by your snippy attitude, inability to spell a Cabinet Minister's name, and emotive, loaded language. What do you expect?

There would be moral outrage.

My politics are down the middle and it always amuses me to see how the left consider themselves morally pure, and how often voters seem to reflect that.

The left and right are no better than each other and Starmer is a particularly odious example of the says what suits at the time politician.