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to ask why people still do not believe that Islamophobia doesn’t exist and therefore doesn’t need an official definition?

332 replies

AdvicePleas · 02/08/2024 00:43

This is a question for the general public , After the recent events , where a horrific unimaginable event that has left a community and parents shattered , reeling from the loss of their babies - the first thing that a significant group did was to attack who they thought were to blame.
and it was the Muslim community.
without verification , confirmation , the hatred was palpable -it was always there.

As a muslim ; every time something like this happens, I know all of us pause and are frightened whether the perpetrators are Muslim and - when they are not - then there are no fingers pointed to whether their religion is to blame for their actions.
the entire community isn’t put to trial.
I am so sad for the senseless loss that the parents and families are going through.
My heart goes our to them,
as my friend who is a hijab wearing Muslim said earlier today -thank god he wasn’t Muslim otherwise they would have come and killed us in our sleep. It hit me to the core how much some people hate us?
I feel this is an injustice to my 70 year old mother who prays 5 times a day, loves her god and has not harmed a single person in her life , my sister who is a confidant professional woman but will not travel out of multi cultural areas for fear of being attacked.

still the government refused to put an official definition for Islamophobia?
having grown experiencing huge levels of it in the early 90/ , I feel that those that do not believe that the Muslim community are hated by other for simply being Muslim are just ignoring it or are part of the problem .
I feel sad for my children , who don’t speak the language their parents speak, only belong to this country but look visibly different and belong to a religion that is hated so much and the government can’t protect them.

OP posts:
Isthisit2 · 04/08/2024 13:58

I believe it op but I also think it’s aLao anti-migrant which is so prevalent at the moment . They are scapegoats to distract from the failures of governments, thanks to shutting down our economies for two years effectively and printing money to cover thousands if not millions not working but still being paid..but yea inflation and war is all the fault of some migrants . It doesn’t matter that the person wasn’t actually a migrant. It’s also blatant racism .
It’s awful op.
Out of interest, for anyone who saw the opening of the Olympic Games what did they think of the massive mockery of Catholicism thrown in?

SallyWD · 04/08/2024 13:41

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Plenty of Muslims are integrated into British society and contributing positively. I know dozens of Muslim women, not one of them is being forced to wear a hijab against their will or banned from socialising. Some don't wear it, some choose to wear it -like my friend who chose to wear it despite her husband preferring her not to.
Don't try and malign all Muslims because your friend's in a shit situation. Plenty of British white women are also in controlling relationships.

SalemsPot · 04/08/2024 12:45

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Gummybear23 · 04/08/2024 12:27

I know some very deprived areas of the UK which are predominately white.
High drug use, high crime low education attainment levels etc.
This is because of lack of investment not because they are white.

Gummybear23 · 04/08/2024 12:24

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I apologise, I dont know anything about you.
But please enlighten me how you are qualified to know about every single Muslim or able label every area with a high ethnic makeup as a 'shithole'.

SalemsPot · 04/08/2024 12:13

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Gummybear23 · 04/08/2024 12:09

PoppyBlack · 04/08/2024 11:57

And yet you felt comfortable with calling other posters " "vile", " failures", and the worst insult of all given the absolutely disgraceful displays of criminality taking place on our streets, " rioters"? How are you much different from the people who " abused and shouted"at you?

You are vile if you go out and attack individuals because of color and religion

Disguise it how you like.
It is racism.

They are failures of the system.
I am talking of individuals who think it is acceptable to attack and loot.

However I accept they have been manipulated by the system.

PoppyBlack · 04/08/2024 11:57

Gummybear23 · 04/08/2024 11:46

I'm.sorry for your experience.
However, in this advanced nation, we also have rapists and people who assualt women.
We have police officers who rape and murder women.

It is the person who chooses to commit these assaults not a religion or a culture.
Being Irish was often abused and shouted at for being a terrorist during the 90s.
Did nothing but only speak with an Irish accent.
Therefore, I will not sit back and tolerate any other person from any faith or country being abused.

And yet you felt comfortable with calling other posters " "vile", " failures", and the worst insult of all given the absolutely disgraceful displays of criminality taking place on our streets, " rioters"? How are you much different from the people who " abused and shouted"at you?

Gummybear23 · 04/08/2024 11:47

@Vizella I have lived in a Muslim country.

Gummybear23 · 04/08/2024 11:46

Vizella · 04/08/2024 11:32

I’m an immigrant from the Middle East, so you’re wrong about me feeling at home with fascists.

Muslim communities do not equal Muslim countries. The communities here still live under British law and customs, therefore they are a meek little minority rather than the fascist bullying majority that I am acquainted with back home. Back in Turkey, I was reprimanded for hanging my washed bra outside on my private balcony that no one can see, except for those busybodies who go looking for sin to correct. I was groped by men on public transport because I didn’t lower my gaze and they took it as an invitation to be lewd and obscene.

Please go and live in an Islamic country before you make naive comments that suggest you don’t know what you’re talking about.

I'm.sorry for your experience.
However, in this advanced nation, we also have rapists and people who assualt women.
We have police officers who rape and murder women.

It is the person who chooses to commit these assaults not a religion or a culture.
Being Irish was often abused and shouted at for being a terrorist during the 90s.
Did nothing but only speak with an Irish accent.
Therefore, I will not sit back and tolerate any other person from any faith or country being abused.

Vizella · 04/08/2024 11:37

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7344381.stm
Have a look at this story. A woman hitchhikes across Europe and nothing happens to her but as soon as she steps on the first Muslim country, she gets raped and murdered.

Not everyone deserves trust.

BBC NEWS | World | Europe | 'World peace' hitcher is murdered

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7344381.stm

Vizella · 04/08/2024 11:32

Gummybear23 · 03/08/2024 22:01

As a Catholic woman who has lived in Muslim communities never have I Ever experienced this.
What a vile character you are labeling someone's religion like this.

No doubt you were amongst friends on your March today.

I’m an immigrant from the Middle East, so you’re wrong about me feeling at home with fascists.

Muslim communities do not equal Muslim countries. The communities here still live under British law and customs, therefore they are a meek little minority rather than the fascist bullying majority that I am acquainted with back home. Back in Turkey, I was reprimanded for hanging my washed bra outside on my private balcony that no one can see, except for those busybodies who go looking for sin to correct. I was groped by men on public transport because I didn’t lower my gaze and they took it as an invitation to be lewd and obscene.

Please go and live in an Islamic country before you make naive comments that suggest you don’t know what you’re talking about.

PoppyBlack · 04/08/2024 00:41

Gummybear23 · 03/08/2024 22:01

As a Catholic woman who has lived in Muslim communities never have I Ever experienced this.
What a vile character you are labeling someone's religion like this.

No doubt you were amongst friends on your March today.

There are ways of disagreeing with a contrary opinion, other than resorting to personal attacks and insults. Implying someone is a rioter because they see things differently? Not a good look, especially on a thread which is discussing people's feelings towards discrimination and intolerance.

Gummybear23 · 03/08/2024 22:23

3CustardCreams · 03/08/2024 22:17

Too harsh. Totally unreasonable to go round calling people failures and the reason for all their problems lol.

Totally unreasonable for people to blame their problems on a religion.
There is a problem how Muslims are being treated by some. Similar to how
they treated Catholics 300 years ago. Used to kill us and imprison us and ban us and hang draw and quarter our priests.

Arconialiving · 03/08/2024 22:22

Flibflobflibflob · 02/08/2024 01:20

I think it depends on the definition really and whether thats expanded to other religions. People must be free to criticise and mock religion, it’s a fundamental part of freedom of speech. What I worry about is blasphemy laws through the back door or only one religion having protection from mockery and criticism.

Harm and abuse to an individual person is already covered by hate speech law and other legislation.

I’m an atheist and I’d rather have less protection for religion than more to be frank. I’m asian and can completely understand how it’s a mix of racism and religious prejudice that people face. But I am extremely wary of any law which can be used to make valid criticism an offence.

This!

3CustardCreams · 03/08/2024 22:17

Gummybear23 · 03/08/2024 22:08

The county's problems are due to political and economic policies not because of people who chose to practice their religion.
You are the type of person to moan about the country becoming a shithole and foreigners taking your job... Whereas the truth is it it because you yourself are a failure. It is easier to hide your failings by blaming someone else.

Too harsh. Totally unreasonable to go round calling people failures and the reason for all their problems lol.

Gummybear23 · 03/08/2024 22:08

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The county's problems are due to political and economic policies not because of people who chose to practice their religion.
You are the type of person to moan about the country becoming a shithole and foreigners taking your job... Whereas the truth is it it because you yourself are a failure. It is easier to hide your failings by blaming someone else.

Gummybear23 · 03/08/2024 22:01

Vizella · 03/08/2024 12:32

What is the point in commenting honestly on a topic when the moderation is going to delete the comment? Where is the freedom of expression? Why is MN censoring opposing views?

I don’t think I will bother writing anything if it’s only going to get deleted for hurting someone’s feelings. What about MY feelings? My truth as a non-Muslim woman from the Middle East who is intimately acquainted with the religion and culture in question?

How are you a victim when your complaint can get someone’s valid but opposing comment deleted?

Before you all start attacking truth-tellers, go and see what Katherine Birbalsingh has had to endure or what Douglas Murray so bravely says. Before you embrace this crocodile tears of a culture/religion, take stock of what you are giving up in order to embrace this culture and its people who DON’T want to embrace you unless you convert to their medieval way of life that is obsessed with dying, sin and hell.

As a Catholic woman who has lived in Muslim communities never have I Ever experienced this.
What a vile character you are labeling someone's religion like this.

No doubt you were amongst friends on your March today.

Therapy4all · 03/08/2024 19:51

qwerty14 · 03/08/2024 18:52

Who would be charged under new Islmophobic hate crime laws. This boy scuffed a Koran at school and had to apologise in a Mosque. Would it mean that he would be charged with a hate crime?

I don't want secondrey school teachers to wear a full hijab because I think that it would be harder to communicate with the class with a fully covered face, would I be allowed to express this viewpoint or would it be considered a hate crime?

It would have a chilling effect on free speech as it would be unclear where the boundary was between what is allowed and not allowed.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11821157/14-year-old-autistic-boys-naive-prank-scuffed-copy-Koran.html

Considering a hijab doesn't cover your face, you should probably do some research before stating what you do and don't want teachers to wear.

qwerty14 · 03/08/2024 18:52

Who would be charged under new Islmophobic hate crime laws. This boy scuffed a Koran at school and had to apologise in a Mosque. Would it mean that he would be charged with a hate crime?

I don't want secondrey school teachers to wear a full hijab because I think that it would be harder to communicate with the class with a fully covered face, would I be allowed to express this viewpoint or would it be considered a hate crime?

It would have a chilling effect on free speech as it would be unclear where the boundary was between what is allowed and not allowed.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11821157/14-year-old-autistic-boys-naive-prank-scuffed-copy-Koran.html

SalemsPot · 03/08/2024 16:53

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Polarnight · 03/08/2024 15:52

take stock of what you are giving up in order to embrace this culture and its people who DON’T want to embrace you unless you convert to their medieval way of life that is obsessed with dying, sin and hell.

Quite. Douglas Murray so bravely said that he doesn't think the UK benefits anything from this. I'd agree. I don't want new laws in place to protect a group that won't embrace the culture of the country they choose to live in.

I don't want to have it made law to be unable to criticise those who believe in the teachings of an illiterate warlord from Arabia.

There are plenty of countries you can move to where there are already laws in place about Islam but strangely living in those isn't appealing for many.

Womanofcustard · 03/08/2024 14:28

People of this country tried for a long time to get rid of the blasphemy laws, and finally succeeded.
Do you want to return to those days?

Sunshineandpool · 03/08/2024 14:22

3CustardCreams · 02/08/2024 20:39

Sometimes I do have concerns about non British attitudes towards women. When working in Scotland as a doctor - which is nowhere near as diversified as London and the south- I was always treated with the utmost respect by my male colleagues. Thereafter I got a job down south after completing my foundation years and it was the first time I found myself working as a doctor in a team of predominately male Drs and from places including Iran, Sudan, Lebanon. I kid you not - the following actually happened. On a ward round one day- some of these male doctors took it upon themselves to openly discuss my appearance and attractiveness on a quantifiable scale- with one announcing that I “pass” and am quite good - but I just need a breast enhancement. A boob job. They also used to conduct some ward rounds speaking Arabic to the point where some patients were visibly uncomfortable and complained to management. Who did nothing. These same doctors were applying for permanent residence after working for 5 years - on some occasions asking me to witness/sign their applications. I know that in Scotland I would never have been told I need a boob job by my male colleagues. I don’t know how to express concerns/questions regarding others cultural attitudes towards women - without people quick to jump on you as being right wing. So I said nothing and let the boob job comment side. I left that hospital.

That's awful, @3CustardCreams I hope you had better experiences after that.

totallythere · 03/08/2024 14:21

Vizella · 03/08/2024 12:32

What is the point in commenting honestly on a topic when the moderation is going to delete the comment? Where is the freedom of expression? Why is MN censoring opposing views?

I don’t think I will bother writing anything if it’s only going to get deleted for hurting someone’s feelings. What about MY feelings? My truth as a non-Muslim woman from the Middle East who is intimately acquainted with the religion and culture in question?

How are you a victim when your complaint can get someone’s valid but opposing comment deleted?

Before you all start attacking truth-tellers, go and see what Katherine Birbalsingh has had to endure or what Douglas Murray so bravely says. Before you embrace this crocodile tears of a culture/religion, take stock of what you are giving up in order to embrace this culture and its people who DON’T want to embrace you unless you convert to their medieval way of life that is obsessed with dying, sin and hell.

Totally this 👏🏻