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Neverending interviews... Getting about tired.

61 replies

Isitameproblem · 01/08/2024 19:03

I've already had three interviews at a startup. They want me to do 4 roles in one. I've scored: 9, 9, 7, 7 and they're worried about my technical abilities. They wanted me to score at least an 8 in all roles. So no they've decided I need another interview. I'm actually kind of fed-up. Normally, they'd assign a take-home task, but instead I've been asked to provide the answers in the spot, not necessarily knowing what POV they want the answer from. I told the recruiter if they had asked the technical questions directly or given me said task we wouldn't be in this situation. I even told him that I'm starting to get concerns as a future employee.

Originally there were 2 interviews, then 3, and now they want a 4th one.....

Aibu of starting to feel tired about the whole thing?

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Isitameproblem · 03/08/2024 11:44

bumbledeedum · 02/08/2024 20:20

This!

Most my career has been in startups, my experience has always been quick and decisive interviews, fairly informal and without all the crappy personality screening tick boxes of larger organisations.

Speaking to a lady that has been in start-ups (she gave me almost 2 hours of her life!)

Her take is that CEO really likes me and is fighting for me. She also told me I'm technical enough, just that clearly I didn't express it somehow.

I'm thinking of emailing the CEO directly and remove the recruiter from the equation. After all, my future relationship would be with them, not the recruiter.

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Penguinmouse · 02/08/2024 20:24

If they can’t make a decision after three interviews, do not pursue this. It will not be worth it.

bumbledeedum · 02/08/2024 20:20

turkeymuffin · 02/08/2024 14:10

I've worked in many startups and don't recognise this at all. Recruitment is usually more about a chat with the Founder / CEO over coffee, meet the team and off you go.

What is the role? Has it been advertised? Does the company have funding or revenue?

This!

Most my career has been in startups, my experience has always been quick and decisive interviews, fairly informal and without all the crappy personality screening tick boxes of larger organisations.

Vettrianofan · 02/08/2024 20:10

At it!!

Isitameproblem · 02/08/2024 20:04

Ineedanewsofa · 02/08/2024 19:53

@Isitameproblem in that case, cut the recruiter out of the picture (they’ll still get paid) and go direct. If you get clarity then it’s a recruiter problem.
If you take the job, negotiate for equity as well as salary and have an exit plan for 24 months down the line. This might feel like you are looking for another job before you’ve started this one but the start up game is to grow quickly and sell - you might want to stay but equally 24 months of no breaks, midnight calls and founder nonsense might leave you wanting a new job 🤣

Would that be ok?

I'm definitely super close to just emailing the CEO and ask him directly to meet again so I can answer his questions and have a effing clear agenda of the meeting/interview.

I know it's an unorthodox approach, but I feel in this case it's justified.

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Ineedanewsofa · 02/08/2024 19:53

@Isitameproblem in that case, cut the recruiter out of the picture (they’ll still get paid) and go direct. If you get clarity then it’s a recruiter problem.
If you take the job, negotiate for equity as well as salary and have an exit plan for 24 months down the line. This might feel like you are looking for another job before you’ve started this one but the start up game is to grow quickly and sell - you might want to stay but equally 24 months of no breaks, midnight calls and founder nonsense might leave you wanting a new job 🤣

cocoloco23 · 02/08/2024 19:43

WouldUSayImWorthy · 02/08/2024 19:09

They don't actually know how to run a business or make effective quick decisions.

I've worked for these people before; it was the worst thing that ever happened to my mental health.

Multiple managers, constant changes of strategy and direction, micromanagement, mismanagement, blame from the top down when their lack of direction caused issues.

The more I read the more I think you should protect yourself by walking away.

This.

I worked in the private sector for 25 years, including at three start ups. You could not pay me enough to get me to work at another (I’m now very happily employed in the civil service). IME, start ups are invariably focused around the whims and the ego of the CEO / founder. If you’re not the right cultural fit / aren’t behind their (often poorly-communicated) vision, you’ll be miserable. Equating a startup with career progression is because you end up with experience of lots of roles - often some of which you might not want. You’re also often at the mercy of shareholders and particularly of VCs. My experience has biased me, but I’d advise anyone to steer well clear.

Isitameproblem · 02/08/2024 19:42

Ineedanewsofa · 02/08/2024 19:34

Slightly different perspective - my interview process for my current job (which is great) was a bit drawn out because;
They’d never hired one of me before
They were in the middle of a huge transition and the decision makers were new to making decisions at that level
I stuck with it because I could see the value I’d add to them, everyone I met was really nice and I knew I could achieve a lot. So far, so good.
Is it good vibes apart from the process? Do you have a clear idea of what you will get out of it and they will get put of it?
Also, do you want to have a life? Generally speaking start ups are all consuming, so family, hobbies etc fall by the wayside

The answer is yes to all of them I'm actually annoyed with the recruiter (more than these guys)

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Ineedanewsofa · 02/08/2024 19:34

Slightly different perspective - my interview process for my current job (which is great) was a bit drawn out because;
They’d never hired one of me before
They were in the middle of a huge transition and the decision makers were new to making decisions at that level
I stuck with it because I could see the value I’d add to them, everyone I met was really nice and I knew I could achieve a lot. So far, so good.
Is it good vibes apart from the process? Do you have a clear idea of what you will get out of it and they will get put of it?
Also, do you want to have a life? Generally speaking start ups are all consuming, so family, hobbies etc fall by the wayside

WouldUSayImWorthy · 02/08/2024 19:09

They don't actually know how to run a business or make effective quick decisions.

I've worked for these people before; it was the worst thing that ever happened to my mental health.

Multiple managers, constant changes of strategy and direction, micromanagement, mismanagement, blame from the top down when their lack of direction caused issues.

The more I read the more I think you should protect yourself by walking away.

Isitameproblem · 02/08/2024 18:54

Lalalacrosse · 02/08/2024 18:05

Then they are being daft. You’re their only option, you clearly can do the main role and will be good at the other roles. They are wasting your time.

Who knows at this point.... Why would they keep wasting their time?.

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Lalalacrosse · 02/08/2024 18:05

Isitameproblem · 02/08/2024 15:59

Apparently I'm the only one! The other CVs haven't been good enough. (He shortlisted 5-6 for them).

Then they are being daft. You’re their only option, you clearly can do the main role and will be good at the other roles. They are wasting your time.

Isitameproblem · 02/08/2024 16:30

WouldUSayImWorthy · 02/08/2024 16:18

They don't sound entirely sure of the OP as a candidate, so not sure how strong her negotiating position would be.

They sound such a mess that they're fairly likely to take that as a sign to reconsider the role completely.

Depends whether the OP wants to play it that way; my gut would be saying no to this one.

Exactly they're not sure about me. They're almost sure but not quite.

Which TO ME is the worst thing about this whole process. Will they hire me because they ended up compromising or because they're happy with me?

There's also the possibility that of we removed tb recruiter out the equation, comms would have been a lot smoother. Who knows!

The one thing I know is that if the recruiter had delivered the news in a different way, I wouldn't be as annoyed. It definitely left me feeling like I'm not good enough.

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WouldUSayImWorthy · 02/08/2024 16:18

SoftPillowAllNight · 02/08/2024 15:52

If I were in your shoes I'd go through the final interview and wait for the offer.

Then I'd negotiate hard. On Title. salary, reporting line, expectations, say you've realised the role is much bigger than advertised and you'll need to be compensated better to be able to juggle the workload. If they pay you more, go for it and do the slog so you get that stepping stone. Leave before you burn out.
If they don't pay more then clearly you are going to be exploited, so your call whether you want to sign up - but Atleast you'll do it with your eyes open.

In any case you shouldn't plan to stay more than 2 years (unless things turn out gloriously) which will help you decide if you can take the pain for 2 years.

They don't sound entirely sure of the OP as a candidate, so not sure how strong her negotiating position would be.

They sound such a mess that they're fairly likely to take that as a sign to reconsider the role completely.

Depends whether the OP wants to play it that way; my gut would be saying no to this one.

Isitameproblem · 02/08/2024 15:59

Edwardbear1 · 02/08/2024 15:57

Are you the only one interviewing ? If they didn’t think you had the scores needed why are they pursuing you unless there is no one else 😐

Apparently I'm the only one! The other CVs haven't been good enough. (He shortlisted 5-6 for them).

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Edwardbear1 · 02/08/2024 15:57

Are you the only one interviewing ? If they didn’t think you had the scores needed why are they pursuing you unless there is no one else 😐

Isitameproblem · 02/08/2024 15:56

roses2 · 02/08/2024 15:49

How much do you want this job - are you currently working? Is your gut feel it is the recruiter being a tool or do you also get a feeling of indecisiveness from the company when you met them for the first three interviews?

I'm currently employed and I'm actually waiting for another offer of sorts (that's a completely different story but I get where they're coming from, so no beef there).

I really want(ed?) this job. It ticked so many boxes and it felt like somewhere I could grow intellectually and professionally.

I think the recruiter is mostly to blame. So much that when I told him that I was going to email the CEO directly and ask him for an agenda/topic or whatever is that I'm supposed to be discussing during the next interview he actually agreed... Which makes me think he acknowledges he's definitely an element within the miscommunication issue.

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Reignydays · 02/08/2024 15:54

Go with your gut. I think they are expecting perfection, for someone to be perfect for all 4 roles. It does seem like red flags to me but you know yourself if you want to go for the 4th interview or not.

If you do, make sure that this is the last interview you do for them.

SoftPillowAllNight · 02/08/2024 15:52

If I were in your shoes I'd go through the final interview and wait for the offer.

Then I'd negotiate hard. On Title. salary, reporting line, expectations, say you've realised the role is much bigger than advertised and you'll need to be compensated better to be able to juggle the workload. If they pay you more, go for it and do the slog so you get that stepping stone. Leave before you burn out.
If they don't pay more then clearly you are going to be exploited, so your call whether you want to sign up - but Atleast you'll do it with your eyes open.

In any case you shouldn't plan to stay more than 2 years (unless things turn out gloriously) which will help you decide if you can take the pain for 2 years.

roses2 · 02/08/2024 15:49

How much do you want this job - are you currently working? Is your gut feel it is the recruiter being a tool or do you also get a feeling of indecisiveness from the company when you met them for the first three interviews?

Isitameproblem · 02/08/2024 15:45

SoftPillowAllNight · 02/08/2024 15:27

Startups are hard work - even without them being 4-in-1 positions!

The reason they are unable to decide is because no one person can be at 'expert' level in all 4 roles. That expectation is unreasonable. You should be careful in signing up for this,

The higher the salary, the crazier the work in startups. Also will you have 1 boss or 4? If 4, please run!

Supposedly it's 1 and a dotted line.

The recruiter is originally said I would report to the dotted line. (So there's been tons and tons of misunderstandings).

I agree with the whole thing about being unreasonable, if I've scored a 9 in two roles, and 7 in two others ones, isn't that good enough? They want 8 across the board... Well I average 8 :/

Or they have to create some weighted average.

I just feel even more aggravated by the second !

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SoftPillowAllNight · 02/08/2024 15:27

Startups are hard work - even without them being 4-in-1 positions!

The reason they are unable to decide is because no one person can be at 'expert' level in all 4 roles. That expectation is unreasonable. You should be careful in signing up for this,

The higher the salary, the crazier the work in startups. Also will you have 1 boss or 4? If 4, please run!

Isitameproblem · 02/08/2024 14:53

SunshineOceanAndOranges · 02/08/2024 14:25

Also, when discussing a hybrid role, there is automatically a notion of a) high expectations (someone, the 'unicorn', who can 'do it all') and b) a very broad remit across multiple areas of the business which brings with it a danger of you not only being stretched for time but also to potentially lack focus. What have they said about the resources available to support you in those multiple roles? And do they have clear KPIs? Because that's the one thing that needs to be clarified upfront: is what they want achievable and are they giving you the means to achieve it?

From what I've been told, all KPIs will be revenue related.

None of the other things were mentioned.

When I started the process I genuinely thought that as long as I was good/excellent at the main thing (which is how it was advertised) and given my knowledge on the matter, I would be golden.

There was genuinely no massive emphasis on "being technical". It could have got lost in translation, so I don't blame them.

However, I think not getting the answers that they wanted means they didn't ask the correct questions.

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SunshineOceanAndOranges · 02/08/2024 14:25

Also, when discussing a hybrid role, there is automatically a notion of a) high expectations (someone, the 'unicorn', who can 'do it all') and b) a very broad remit across multiple areas of the business which brings with it a danger of you not only being stretched for time but also to potentially lack focus. What have they said about the resources available to support you in those multiple roles? And do they have clear KPIs? Because that's the one thing that needs to be clarified upfront: is what they want achievable and are they giving you the means to achieve it?

Isitameproblem · 02/08/2024 14:20

turkeymuffin · 02/08/2024 14:10

I've worked in many startups and don't recognise this at all. Recruitment is usually more about a chat with the Founder / CEO over coffee, meet the team and off you go.

What is the role? Has it been advertised? Does the company have funding or revenue?

TBF that's how it started!

It was advertised but it's not like the recruiter found me, I randomly found it on LI, so the recruiter has done next to zero effort.

They do have revenue, and the CEO sold his previous company to one of the big 4 tech companies.

The role is a mix of: CSM/TAM/SE/Onboarding manager/ AM - renewal manager

TAM was something completely different in my different company.

I have done a mix of all of the others at some point and I have 10 years in that industry. I just never had a proper "technical" role. (But I did do a year of physics at uni so I know I'm not an idiot).

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