Women with complete androgen insensitivity syndrome

Neither male boxer has yet claimed to have a DSD so this could be direct cheating with or without state collusion.

Being 'raised a woman'(whatever that means)doesn't make him a woman.

Although people with total androgen insensitivity don’t have the benefits of testosterone for sporting performance, the XY chromosome means they are taller, don’t have the female pelvis, periods, etc, which affect the performance of those with xx chromosomes.

But how do you know Imane Khelif has CAIS? Noone knows that they have any DSD, but there are plenty where they do go through male puberty.

The only thing we do know is that the IAB found them ineligible to compete in the women's category due to concerns over safety and fairness. Therefore it is a scandal that the IOC has overruled that.

🤣 🤣 🤣 God, it’s been ages since I’ve seen that article 😂

Regardless of all that, people are who they are and they are born with the bodies they are born with .

Does that apply to all disabled people and people with medical conditions? It's both a pointless platitude and extremely callous.

So? XY 5 ARD males develop as males during puberty. None of them get past about age 14 without it becoming clear they are male. Raised as a girl until puberty then turning into a teenage boy must be fucking confusing and distressing for them but it's hardly a secret. Caster Semenya was raised as a boy from puberty when his genuine sex became obvious. Yet he still chose to compete against women in order to win. It's cheating.

It's interesting that the two most common DSDs that don't offer an obvious advantage (studies have shown that women with CAIS are overrepresented in sport, but it's perfectly fine everywhere for them to compete and not considered an issue), have been mentioned on this thread.

Women with CAIS and Swyers are not the issue here, nor are they a trojan horse for you to use to derail the legitimate debate about male physiological advantage being used to unfairly compete in women's sport.

@Tandora But you categorically do not know that Imane Khelif has any DSD, let alone this one. Did you literally trawl through all of them to find one to suit your narrative?

It's a medical issue / disability.

If you don't meet the criteria to enter the Olympics then set up an alternative for people with a similar condition in the Paras.

Job done.

Oh wait that doesn't involve a power trip over women and hurting women. It also means admitting you have a medical condition and they don't want to be associated with other people with medical issues / disabilities because of internalised disablism.

Better just to abuse women for not budging up and refusing to except unfairness and unacceptable risks in women's sport.

And we know OP thinks that "trans rights" trump women's, because she's said this on many threads. This DSD talk is a convenient deflection.

She has had 50 fights as a female, raised a woman.

Thing is though, the only DSDs that actually confer an advantage are the ones that allow XY males who look a bit like females to compete against females. They have an advantage because they go through male puberty. CAIS people don't have the physicality of elite athletes. They tend to have supermodel proportions - very long and thin. It's very unlikely that any CAIS XY person would reach Olympic level in the first place.

It always comes down to the same thing, doesn't it? All this talk about sex being a spectrum, there is no advantage by going through male puberty, some women are strong and some men are weak, blah blah blah.

OP, why are you so hellbent on making all sports mixed sex and taking away fair sporting inclusion for women and endangering them? Apart from not caring about sport, certainly not caring about women, what is your reason women's sports must include male people if they want to join? Just own the fact you are a male supremacist please

Oh and yes, you are being extremely unreasonable

All the obfuscation around this is a transparent attempt to allow men to dominate all women’s spaces at will.

Yep.

but a lot of the "men have penises and women have vaginas" crew

Most of the world then? Men don't have vaginas. Women don't have penises. People of both sexes with disorders of sex development exist. Hope that helps.

It fewlya bit like a stunt if look into it.

I was listening to something about the olympic boxers on the radio earlier. I do have sympathy for anyone living with this condition and they are not trying to gain an unfair advantage by assuming a different gender. However, if they have physiological traits which give them an unfair advantage, particularly in a sport like boxing where physical harm could be done to an opponent, then it just cannot be allowed.

I think the IOC bears a lot of responsibility for the current scenario. The federation that oversees international boxing did not allow them to compete in the world championships last year as they have stringent testing to determine gender in the context of competitive boxing and the two boxers did not pass. The IOC doesn't seem to have the same testing in place even though they knew this would be an issue.

you aren’t wrong that this is an incredibly complex issue. Dsd really need to be handled on a condition by condition basis.

as difficult as it might be though to discover later in life your self perception does not match your reality, you can’t change reality. Many of us have to come to terms with a variety of genetics based conditions that can have massive implications on our lives.

this must be especially difficult for elite athletes and I have sympathy for them. That still doesn’t change the fact that some of them should switch divisions if they want to keep competing.

All the obfuscation around this is a transparent attempt to allow men to dominate all women’s spaces at will.

Why do people like you insist on pretending you don't know the difference between men and women?

I haven't been able to face a lot of the commentary today, but a lot of the "men have penises and women have vaginas" crew have made hypocrites of themselves today.