shocked my best friend voted Reform

Says you who called me 'ridiculously naive'.

Just to add, I also think it’s helpful to be friends with people who think differently to you as that can help you shape your own views and beliefs and to help you understand why you think the way you do.

I completely agree with this.

I know 2 people who voted Reform. One of them is quite a close friend and the other is more of an acquaintance. They both know I vote differently to them (I generally vote Labour or Lib Dem).

With the close friend, she and I often talk about why we vote the way we do and I find it interesting and helpful to hear her thoughts. We’re both quite respectful and tolerant when we have these discussions and I find her quite open-minded. I guess that’s why were good friends haha.

With the other person I know who voted Reform, he will talk about his political views uninvited, and begin what is essentially a monologue about it, unprompted, which I find annoying. He knows I vote differently to him and he hasn’t been very nice about it (calling me a ‘social justice warrior’ etc etc), which is unkind and tiresome. Thankfully he’s stopped doing that. He also comes across as quite closed-minded, as it’s very difficult to get a word in edgeways when he’s talking about politics. And if I (or anyone else) makes a point, he will say ‘oh yes, that’s a good point’ or something similar, but then ignore it entirely and just continue speaking.

I think it’s important and valuable - and an ingredient of a tolerant, respectful society - to have friends and acquaintances who think differently to us (whether politically or otherwise). But it’s very difficult to welcome that if those people come across as stubborn or closed-minded, like the person I mentioned above.

I think it can be very difficult to be open-minded and to stay that way, but that for me is the key. It’s about seeking out your similarities and things that connect you, which will also help you understand and appreciate the differences.

It is a cliche - and often very hard to do in practice - but I think it is very true.

@Northernnature Just want to say 100% agree with you.

Feels like whataboutery.

People are voting Reform because they are worried about our tiny island becoming even more overcrowded. Not because they want to burn mosques etc

I agree. Politics has become very polarised with few people listening and insults being flung all over the place. Like you, I am very worried about where we could end up politically in a few years time.

Absolutely no one disagrees with this.

The debate is around where you draw the line.

Let's say a friend of yours tells you they are of the opinion that all UK mosques should be burnt to the ground, gay men should be castrated and women who have abortions should be in jail. You've eloquently challenged them but they are intransigent and loudly express their views in front of your children. How do feel about them going forward?

I haven't rtft but I just wanted to say, friends are allowed differences of opinion. You can disagree with each other but still be friends.

The only people I am close to who are right wing are family members as I love them, but honestly I wouldn’t be friends with them if we weren’t related. If your friend is a long term best friend, it’s a tricky one. I think I would have to ask curiously about their reasoning and then decide how close I wanted to stay to them based on their answer. In my mind, am happy to be acquaintances with people with all kinds of political views if they aren’t too extreme but I wouldn’t spend a lot of time with anyone who wasn’t left wing as we just wouldn’t see eye to eye.

I think people should look at why Reforms policies seemed appealing to people. Yes a portion are racists and the policies wouldn’t have mattered.

But why have so many people voted for them this time. Thats what the main parties need to be looking at.

So many people felt all the main parties were just lying so their policies didn’t matter. We all knew Labour would get in and say ‘we didn’t realise it was so bad, so now we have to do things we didn’t mention before’. I know so many people who couldn’t decide who to vote for because they knew it was all lies so they had nothing to base their vote on.

If the main parties actually paid attention, then they would learn from this election and look at why so many people voted reform. And people need to do it. Shouting ‘they must be thick’ or ‘they are definitely racist’ and ignoring them doesn’t work and makes the issue worse.

It’s How Trump got in, in America and it’s how he is probably going to get in again.

Labour have got an opportunity to address this between now and the next election. I don’t think they will and I think we will have years of close elections with reform increasing until the worst happens and they get in or one of the main parties wakes up. The next election concerns me greatly.

Farage released a video Thursday "asking questions" speculating that Southport was an islamist terrorist attack. It stirred up racial hatred that has fueled far right violent thugs looting, attacking minorities & the police, and burning vehicles in various UK cities. Which is what he wanted, it's what his kind of politics thrives on. Many people were fooled into voting for the proto-fascist Reform 'party' (actually his private company) - and many others knew exactly what they were voting for. Not easy to tell who is in which category though.

I never find it a good idea to discuss voting choices with family or friends. It’s just that….a choice. I’d never judge my relationship with anyone on their voting choices either, it just becomes judgemental. Best not to go there and respect others choices as you’d expect them to respect yours

It doesn't. I'm referring to (the seemingly few) people across the political spectrum who are able to hold a debate.

You've clearly encountered people who can't. I'm centrist and, in my experience, a LOT of those are on the left!

You've spectacularly misunderstood my post. But thanks for your input.

@Jumpingthruhoops and yet Reform supporters have insulted and mocked me and others on this thread. How does that contribute to debate and discussion?
Or is it okay for them to imply and say people are stupid?

That's the idea of debate - to listen to both sides of an argument, engage and hopefully learn something.

Do I agree with every opinion? No. Do I understand why people might hold certain opinions? Certainly.

I agree with @Northernnature that social media has led to people not being able to have a basic conversation. You see it all the time on here.

Hmm I think Boris with 80 seat majority may have been

Honestly this is just lazy stereotyping. I am not on the left, I am a centrist. I can also debate with the best of them. But most people on this thread promoting Reform are insulting others who disagree with them, making lazy assumptions, or do not understand Reforms policies. So please do not insult us by saying WE have lost the art of debate and discussion.

He does not believe in climate change or workable economic policies either presumably?

People having basic moral standards and boundaries around who they want to be friends with is categorically not what is making angry young men around the country throw bricks at mosques and set fire to police stations.

You seem to be struggling with some confusion around cause and effect. People are not suddenly inspired to start rioting and expressing racist views because someone describes them as "far right". People only describe them as "far right" because of the views that they are already expressing. And these most definitely are not just views that are a little right of centre.

There have been some really good journalistic investigations in the last day or two, looking at how the far right agitators have spread deliberate misinformation to whip up anger and incite riots. I suggest that you read some of it before making spurious claims about how the OP and people like her are somehow responsible for the thuggery because they don't want to hang out with racists.

And finally, no, having concerns about issues such as mass immigration, crime and pressure on public services absolutely does not make you racist. But expressing those concerns in racist ways, voting for racist parties and spreading deliberate disinformation to whip up hate absolutely does make you racist. And we have seen a lot of racists on MN in recent days.

Yes you sound very sensible @Asherrain unlike some on this thread. The trouble is alot of people don't want to listen and are very close minded (mainly on the left). I do blame social media for the lost art of debate.

Totally agree with this. I have a friend who voted reform. He is a professor and very well informed. He isn't racist. He feels very strongly about immigration amongst other things. I welcome the debate, and he has taught me a lot.

Respectfully OP, it's attitudes like this that are stoking the tensions we're seeing across the country at the moment.

These days, anyone deemed politically 'right of centre' is immediately shot down as a 'far-right extremist, racist, nazi!' It's lazy, unhelpful rhetoric that needs to stop!

Having concerns about mass immigration, overpopulation, pressure on public services and crime, doesn't automatically make you 'far-right' - and the constant suggestion it does is really starting to boil my piss!

When did we stop being able to talk to one another? OP you say she's your best friend. Presumably you have discussed the concerns she has that prompted her to vote the way she did? What advice did you give her to maybe help her see things differently?

Yes, never recovered my friendship after I found out the same.

I was baffled by your responses to me so I went back and read the quote history. My comment was a general one about gross exaggeration being a poor way of arguing, in any situation. I was adding to a poster’s comment about hyperbole. Nothing to do with Reform. A bit of a derail on my part, I suppose.