shocked my best friend voted Reform

Neo-liberal capitalism requires a constant stream of labour to keep wages down. I totally disapprove of the NHS poaching workers from overseas. Both policies are Conservative.

OMG OP you voted labour ! how bloody awful of you, i would certainly have to dump you as a friend, i mean you must really dislike the elderly to have voted in such a way. That makes you an awful person that i can't possibly tolerate. Fucking crazy response don't you think OP

Wow. You sound very intolerant.

Who did you vote for OP? Not that anyone’s vote is amyone else’s business. I’m sure whoever it was she has equal reason to be disappointed in you. We live in a democracy…well at least for now we do and it is everyone’s right to vote for who they like whatever you or I think. You know her and like her I assume so I don’t get why this would change your relationship. She just has clearly had enough of the alternatives and it was possibly even a protest vote. Labour was always going to get in as the Tories needed to go but frying pan to fire springs to mind in my opinion. Just out of interest, do you feel the same about those of a different religion or culture to yourself or are you more accepting?

They're about making this country safer

😂

This is bollocks sorry, reform aren't about whipping up hate. They're about making this country safer. Only a total idiot would think we are safe under labour where we are all getting stretched so thin financially we will have fuck all left soon so when crime does occur there's no solving it and no rectifying the damages caused by it. And the people causing it are also given pathetic sentences. You'd think very differently if something like that affected you.

I have just seen this along the comments and would be interested in what you think of this question? If a legal migrant who came to the UK from Africa / Pakistan / India etc voted Reform because they are seeing the values of the Country they chose to and live by be slowly destroyed as well as the out of control illegal immigration situation would you class them as Racist?

I’d be interested in your answer to something I’ve just seen. If a legal migrant who came to the UK from Africa / Pakistan / India etc voted Reform because they are seeing the values of the Country they chose to and live by be slowly destroyed as well as the out of control illegal immigration situation would you class them as Racist?

I agree. French exceptionalism (as displayed last week at the Olympics) is an example of racism e.g. the cene on the seine, which laughed at the religion of many of the competing nations from Africa, E. Asia and S. America.
It is reasonable to love one's country and to wish its culture to continue. Only western nations are supposed to let their own culture (democracy, human rights, anti-slaving, workers' rights, regulation and opprobrium for corruption, along with a swathe of scientific and cultural achievements) be subsumed by others, and be assumed to be lesser. It is neither racist nor nationalistic to prefer incorrupt parliamentary government to dictatorship, for example, or to criticise countries that treat their people - often especially women - with contempt.

It would definitely change how I saw someone and how I saw our friendship. Not saying I would fall out/cut ties but would definitely not feel the same about them, would probably create a bit of distance and watch what I said around them. FWIW I am pretty sure my dad voted Reform. I don't have him on my social media anymore, and limit contact and avoid conversations about politics for my own sanity. There's no way I will be able to change his mind, no point trying if I want to keep the door open for any sort of relationship.

It's very telling indeed that views which you consider to be patriotic are perceived by others as racist or nationalist.

Way more than 4 million people voted for the Nazis in the 1930s, so the fact that lots of people hold extreme views doesn't in itself make those views reasonable or acceptable.

I don't think everyone who voted Reform is terrible. I fully accept that some people lack the intelligence and critical thinking skills to understand what they are voting for. But those who do understand and vote for the far right anyway? Yes, I consider them to be completely lacking in moral values and a threat to our society.

And of course, you are entirely free to be disappointed that others don't share your far right views and choose instead to vote for mainstream political parties. You are free to choose not to be friends with people who oppose racism. That is your right within a democratic system.

There's never been "open immigration policies".
In both the last two years net migration has been three times higher than in any year when Blair was PM.

What has that got to do with Reform though? None of that was in their policies.

Great post.

@AvrielFinch Of course everyone has a right but if you allow politics to dictate who you are friends with then that’s just doesn’t sit right. The friend would be by far better off not having a ‘friend’ like that in their life. Can I ask, if a legal migrant who came to the UK from Africa / Pakistan / India etc voted Reform because they are seeing the values of the Country they chose to and live by be slowly destroyed as well as the out of control illegal immigration situation would you class them as Racist?

What’s an example of beliefs that some people would consider patriotic and others would consider racist/nationalist? There’s a massive difference between the two. One is founded on pride, love and respect and the other on arrogance, hatred and ignorance.

I think the people who opened the doors to the idiots protesting in Southport were T. Blair with his open immigration policies and Labour in general. They hated (hate?) working-class Britain and wanted to dilute what they saw as racist/nationalist beliefs, which most people call patriotism and preferring the way we do things to how other people do things elsewhere (no moral/ethical judgement implied). Brexit was about sovereignty, rather than immigration, which was listed as a reason for their vote by a minority of Brexiteers.

Did you get to the end of my post? I didn’t vote Reform. I was expressing my views on how quite a few friends and family voted, one being a Muslim GP and what he and his family have experienced. The more info I am shown by him on the Reform manifesto and the manifesto of Labour (who I voted for and 3 weeks in are already being lied to about what was ‘promised’). What I am saying is, don’t be fooled by what you hear on TV and the MSM. They are owned by very powerful people who need a certain narrative to be pushed. We need to start to open our eyes and accept that all is not what it seems.

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I'm very sorry for the family that you mention who lost a loved one in a terrorist attack, but I think they are deeply misguided if they believe that voting for Reform - a party that exists to create division and whip up hate - is going to make them safer. I feel very sorry for them if they have been manipulated into making a decision that is directly counter to what you say that they want.

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How patronising, dismissive, unsympathetic, arrogant, sanctimonious and out of touch with reality.

Well 4 million people voted Reform, me included, so you can’t assume we’re all terrible people??! We could equally be disappointed that other people voted Lib/Lab/Con but it’s up to each individual to choose.

Nobody is telling anyone who they can and can't vote for.

People are free to vote for whoever they like. That doesn't mean that others aren't free to criticise their choices or choose their friends.

In a democracy, as long as you stay within the law, you have an absolute right to say and think what you like, and to vote for who you choose. You do not have a right to demand that other people respect or accept those views.

I'm very sorry for the family that you mention who lost a loved one in a terrorist attack, but I think they are deeply misguided if they believe that voting for Reform - a party that exists to create division and whip up hate - is going to make them safer. I feel very sorry for them if they have been manipulated into making a decision that is directly counter to what you say that they want.

Doesn't matter people are still allowed to vote for who they want. What you're doing now is justifying why the Op is right to dictate who people can and can't vote for. I know someone who voted reform who's family was quite literally killed in a terrorist attack. Do you think they aren't entitled to their own views and fears? They're not racists, but they've had an adverse experience that has meant they ultimately feel safer voting for Reform than they would other parties. Its not hard to realise that people have their own lives and won't always agree. That's okay. What isn't okay is telling people they can't vote for who they want or shaming them for it. I personally think our country will be a total crock of shit and a real second rate place to live under Labour but I don't shun the many people I know who voted for them as they obviously think its best.

I agree. The acquaintance I mentioned in my post above has some pretty offensive views, so I’m not at all close to him.

I agree. I have some wonderful friends who think differently to me on all sorts of topics. I am happy for my views to be challenged and to think about different perspectives.

But I also have some red lines. It is not "helpful" to spend time with people who hold offensive and dangerous views. It is OK to choose not to be friends with people who you find morally reprehensible. I don't want friends that cause me to lose faith in humanity.