THe upper middle class favour immigration

But you're not answering the questions people are asking you. Who can afford £52k in nursery fees? Plus higher prices for social care for their parents. Women (mostly) will stop working leading to shortages in the job market. Who will fill them? Who will pay to train all these people as women work in all sectors of the economy. Those women were paying tax too. The economy will be in major difficulty.

I dont think you've told us the numbers in your fantasy economy. At what income level are you considering someone is 'upper middle class' (putting aside that class does not = income)? How many of them are there? What rate of tax are you proposing & how much income will it raise? And why are you putting the burden on the middle class. You've told us you are upper class but you havent told us how they are going to contribute.

There’s so much twaddle on this thread about lazy Brits, too good to work as carers, apparently we didn’t even build our own country!

The truth is British born have the same employment rates, both full time and part time, as immigrants. 81% of care workers are British, similar to our number in the population (83%).

And Britain wasn’t built in the last 30 years, which is the only period we have had mass immigration. Our infrastructure has been built over several centuries, during which time we had very small numbers of immigrants relative to the native population. Even the Windrush generation, which might be seen as our first mass immigration, the numbers were about 0.1% of the population a year. Now we have immigration of 2% of the population a year.

Immigration at this level benefits business owners, who lobby the government hard. It benefits the government, because it increases the GDP, (although the GDP per capita is currently going down). The wealthy can buy their way out of it’s effects.

For many people though, it just means having to share scarce resources amongst ever more people.

When it comes to care workers, we could have chosen to improve the pay and conditions. I think paying care workers a few more pounds an hour would have been better value than what we did do. Which was to import (with the resultant fraud and exploitation), a 100,000 care workers, who came with 120,000 dependents.

The upper middle class have yet to feel the effects of immigration. Don't worry once they do, the whole world will change.

Also you have to realise that incompetent people exist in every society. They don't become immigrants though. Immigrants are always going to be more hardworking and aspirational than average.

Did I really read that - it is an outrageous comment. So indigenous people are less hardworking and aspirational. And your proof for this is ?

How much would that cost? Can you point to a nationalised model that works?

Tax rates are determined by income or wealth not class.

Tacktick???
You style yourself upper middle class yet cannot spell tactic?

@MeouwCat As you yourself are upper class this means you would be subjected to higher classes and charges, despite you being unable to name these taxes and charges.

However, I take it you aren a hypocrite, so how much voluntary additional tax you pay per year? After all the person wanting this would surely be leading the way by paying the additional taxes they owe the country.

Then you as a consumer have to be willing to pay more for goods and services. Who loses out most when prices go up 🤔

Pay care workers as much as you like, it won't plug the gap. We're getting older and unhealthier. The number of people who need care is going to sky rocket about the number of native brits able and willing to do the work.
What we need is for people to take responsibility for their health and living situations, and a move back to closer generational living. Unless that happens, immigration is the only way we will keep people looked after.

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If childcare workers were paid more, mums of young children would not afford to use it and would find other solutions.

Other solutions? Do tell.

And most children have two parents - why do you think it’s all on the mums to find these “other solutions”?

The politicians most keen on extreme anti immigration policies seem to be from ethnic minorities. Suella, Priti, Rishi. I often think they wouldn't get away with their extreme views if they were white. Plenty of ethnic minorities and second generation immigrants are against further immigration. It doesn't equate to racism

It's a complicated issue.

The low paid workers coming from the EU that live in large numbers in working class areas have mostly been white in recent years anyway.

Right wing bigots just like any excuse to cause trouble.

I don't think most people are racist but unfortunately a minority shout louder than others especially online where they can hide

The whole premise of childcare for working mums relies on low paid (primarily female) workers. If childcare workers were paid more, mums of young children would not afford to use it and would find other solutions. Childcare would be affordable by a smaller section of society. Unless it's massively subsidised by the tax payer.

Childcare is a bad example really, it is badly paid but other than that it's rewarding, sociable hours , a pleasant working environment, relatively speaking. Hence plenty of British people are willing to do it, particularly young girls without many financial demands. There are plenty of horrible places to work that are staffed mainly immigrants - abattoirs, chicken factories etc.

The reason British people don't want low paid unpleasant jobs is that benefits are relatively high while steady availability of low paid workers keeps wages low. If people had no choice but to work they would be willing to do these unpopular jobs. On the flip side, there would be more poverty.

A high tax but more equal society is the only answer to this problem but that is not popular in this country.

Also you have to realise that incompetent people exist in every society. They don't become immigrants though. Immigrants are always going to be more hardworking and aspirational than average.

did you type that with your eyes tight shut and your dick in your hand?

Is this Suella Braverman here?

I am curious as to how a person could be "very upper class" but skint. Surely you own/have inherited land or some kind of property then? How can you then claim to be skint? What is your definition of "very upper class"? I would define that as the aristocracy?

Yes - I agree and I find it frightening.

My husband and I are British born, pay our taxes, work in the public sector and are law-abiding citizens, but we are both from an ethnic minority background and do not look "white". DH has always been cynical in the sense that he feels like we don't "belong" and are unwelcome in many parts of the UK. I have always said that this isn't the case anymore and that we can and should be able to visit anywhere in the country without fear of racism... Then stuff like the Southport riots happen and he says "See, I told you they hate us" 😔

It is alarming how many people online appear to express far-right views and makes me wonder who in my life is just pretending to not be racist. It's easy to hide behind a keyboard when you don't have to worry about how socially acceptable your views are. Maybe it will even get to the point where it will once again be considered socially acceptable to be openly racist. The rhetoric by certain politicians in recent times gives bigots permission to do this.

And yet paying junior doctors £50k a year was going to bring the country to its knees apparently…
I agree carers deserve way more. But there is also a huge need to have carers who are good at their job not just ones who are doing it for the money. Having said that compassion might be easier when you don’t have to stress about feeding your children! That has ZERO to do with immigration

I don't agree with anyone trying to silence debate by using slurs such a "thicko" in an attempt to quash discussion. As taxpayers & citizens we have every right to question what is happening. Calling other mumsnetters "thickos" is the height of immaturity.

I notice you don't disagree with @Frith2013 's essential point though.

"Thicko", that's a new one. Your lots vocabulary generally doesn't stretch beyond the usual slurs of "bigot, racist or far right".. An Oxford dictionary would help you all find some new slurs, I havn't seen "thickos" on any thread in the past 24 hours. Well done you trailblazer!

This.

I agree with this. I think what most people are saying it's necessary and the pros outweigh the cons because of the situation we're in. It's ultimate poor planning for the future of every government, and now it needs to be thought of on a global scale which is practically impossible when you're all ultimately selfish and competing for the same resources.