THe upper middle class favour immigration

No, I have an Oxbridge doctorate, not that its relevant to this thread.

I see what your trying to say but the Grammar school system prioritises the "brightest" at the expense of everyone else.

Why can't education be funded so ALL students have the opportunity to reach their full potential, without being segregated?

The 11+ may have been good for those that passed but those that didn't often felt and were made to feel failures.

@SharonEllis - Are you like one of those authors who self-publish on Amazon? A sort of self-proclaimed ‘historian’?

We need immigration, but it can’t be a free for all. I’m fed up of this pro or anti immigration nonsense. I love my child but she drives me nuts, motherhood is hard but also wonderful. Life is not black and white. I wish politicians and the press would stop with this divisive crap and accept that we need economic migrants like the Irish in the 60 and 70 , the wind rush generation etc. as for which class benefits most from migration, do you ever visit a nail saloon with Asian staff? I’d say 80% of the drs I’ve seen are Indian. Did they steal that GP job from you? Every class benefits from migration when it is done right.

The politicians most keen on extreme anti immigration policies seem to be from ethnic minorities. Suella, Priti, Rishi. I often think they wouldn't get away with their extreme views if they were white. Plenty of ethnic minorities and second generation immigrants are against further immigration. It doesn't equate to racism

It's a complicated issue.

The low paid workers coming from the EU that live in large numbers in working class areas have mostly been white in recent years anyway.

Right wing bigots just like any excuse to cause trouble.

I don't think most people are racist but unfortunately a minority shout louder than others especially online where they can hide

No, Im a 20th century historian.

We need immigration, but it can’t be a free for all. I’m fed up of this pro or anti immigration nonsense. I love my child but she drives me nuts, motherhood is hard but also wonderful. Life is not black and white. I wish politicians and the press would stop with this divisive crap and accept that we need economic migrants like the Irish in the 60 and 70 , the wind rush generation etc. as for which class benefits most from migration, do you ever visit a nail saloon with Asian staff? I’d say 80% of the drs I’ve seen are Indian. Did they steal that GP job from you? Every class benefits from migration when it is done right.

Closet race baiters rearing their heads, bro.

so many GoadyMcBigots around these days.

bet they arrived on small boats or parents come from Rwanda eh OP??

All schools should strive to be excellent. However that doesn’t mean the brightest kids should be denied the opportunity of attending excellent schools that are more academically rigorous than other excellent schools. Why lump everyone in together?

No one moans about lack of equality in the German school system, and that’s very similar to the old grammar school system. Which still exists in Northern Ireland, by the way, and you don’t hear anyone from there moaning either.

Instead of abolishing grammar schools, why didn’t the champagne socialists in the 1960s and 1970s simply try to improve secondary moderns and make them equally excellent? No, they took a look at what was happening around them - how the art was influencing society, changing opinions and values, changing the status quo - and they decided no more. Maybe if the people producing that art weren’t for the most part grammar school boys, they wouldn’t have gone all out to deny that opportunity to others. Then again, the world would much poorer for it. As it is now that we no longer produce great art. Is it any wonder?

Closet race baiters rearing their heads, bro.

I meant a nationalised model of social care. I have no problem with nationalisation in principle. Its just that nationalisation involves both upfront & ongoing costs and so you do need to know how much it will cost & where the money comes from.

Closet race baiters rearing their heads, bro.

Suella, is this you posting on here again? Go join Reform.

‘I've never met a refugee that couldn't speak at least 3 languages”

are you assuming one of those languages is English? I assume the majority of immigrants can speak English? but there must be many who do not

from the BBC 10 years ago …
Many councils say they are struggling to cut the cost of translation services for migrants. The government wants local authorities to reduce the amount spent on translating documents for non-English speakers. Latest estimates suggest that £140m a year is spent on translation by the UK public sector as a whole.
28 Jan 2014

I know it was reported that the chap who stabbed the children outside the primary school in Dublin (charged with attempted murder) spoke only to his Arabic interpreter in court.

Some actual figures....
NB 'worker' visas include skilled workers. You can't just turn up & live here. Illegal immigration is a small proportion of overall immigration & hidden in those 'illegal' immigrants are sometimes highly skilled people escaping persecution etc because we have closed down most legal routes to refugees/asylum seekers. I've never met a refugee that couldn't speak at least 3 languages.

www.gov.uk/government/statistics/immigration-system-statistics-year-ending-june-2023/why-do-people-come-to-the-uk-to-work

Lol. So you learnt how to use Google. Well done.

Yes I do know that. I think you might be confusing causation and correlation, and muddling up a lot of different things going on in society at the time. Bridget Riley went to Cheltenham Ladies (expensive private school) Peter Blake to a tech college, Ken Russell to a private school, Richard Hamilton I think did an apprenticeship, Pauline Boty was middle class, off the top of my head. So, David Hockney & 3 out of 4 Beatles went to grammar schools. Are you really saying that grammar school was THE critical factor in their success? Interesting theory.

Yes I do know that. I think you might be confusing causation and correlation, and muddling up a lot of different things going on in society at the time. Bridget Riley went to Cheltenham Ladies (expensive private school) Peter Blake to a tech college, Ken Russell to a private school, Richard Hamilton I think did an apprenticeship, Pauline Boty was middle class, off the top of my head. So, David Hockney & 3 out of 4 Beatles went to grammar schools. Are you really saying that grammar school was THE critical factor in their success? Interesting theory.

I am genuinely gobsmacked that you don’t know how art and music in the 1960s influenced society.

When did you go to school? What did they teach you?