THe upper middle class favour immigration

I think you may be confused, this is nothing to do with me.

I certainly have never attempted to slur all working people or anything like.

You tag me in at the top of your post, but none of it relates to me, I cannot tell if the first paragraph is part of your post as it seems to be (no quotes or other separation from the rest of the text). However I suspect it is something someone else accused you of, but am very unhappy that your post makes it appear I have said that.

Given you can presumably no longer edit it, please have it taken down as it totally misrepresents me.

Re your post, I am sure the police will be on top of it, hopefully the guilty protesters will be treated equally, like just stop oil vandals or those flying flags of terrorist organisations, glamorising mass murders, and making Jewish people afraid to walk the streets in our country. Just for example of some of the more persistent and disruptive ones. (also very real risk of delays to emergency services, which is very serious and can cause fatalities). There are of course many others. Obviously we cannot decry law breaking for one group and not another depending on our POV.

I often think when I see protests, especially the repeated large ones. I am not sure how democratic they really are for those that work long hours, or are not as able as others, or although have quite real and fair concerns are afraid to express them for fear that they don’t fit in with the current group think of the chattering classes, who freely think they can insult them and falsely accuse them of whatever (a bit like on here).

Also if we think about it, many of the most reported demos take place around London, which is much easier to take part in if you live in London, so those that do may be getting an undemocratic advantage, especially if they are not representative of the country as a whole. I suppose I am talking about the disadvantaged silent majority.

I can imagine people thinking are we paying for that mob to protest, especially where the protests are large and repeated, in fact some people seem to be professional protesters. The Labour left wing radical protest group, Momentum I didn’t realise are a private company. However people can work different shifts so even when the protests are during the day in the week it doesn’t always follow.

Two different things that don’t equate.

@thefireplace ’We’ve over 135k vacancies in social care alone’. That’s because it’s a poorly paid job for the responsibility, with unsocial hours, and anyone doing that job can kiss goodbye to ever having a reasonable standard of living or ever buying a property. Importing poor people from abroad to live in poverty here is not the solution. Similarly with builders. The mass influx of EE builders put a lid on any pay increases for years. The government needs to train up more trades with colleges and skill centers. It’s building, not rocket science. Importing cheap people from abroad again is not the answer.

@OneForTheToad I'm feeling even less cultural enrichment from the huge amounts of pure white British yobbos and chavs out there

Where have I said there shouldn't be any immigration. Of course those workers protesting had the skills to build an oil refinery, what planet are you on?

My husband worked in the construction industry for over 40 years, he worked on many building projects in his time, all with skilled workers, plumbers, electricians, carpenters, brick layers etc.

I will mention Blair because this is when it all snowballed, because Blair wanted more and more young people to go to university instead of learning a trade. The actions of both Labour and Conservative Governments have led us to where we are today.

I said it was sustainable, not that it isn't too many, 2m over 13 years gives time to build the infrastructure required, we decided not to do that, in an ideal world, we would be self sufficient in workers but we are not.

How many of those workers protesting could have actually been able to build an oil refinery? and its a few 100....

We ve over 135k vacancies in social care alone, 10s of 1000's of animals dumped because we don't have enough skilled abattoir workers, can't build enough houses because we don't have suitably trained construction workers & v long waiting lists in health mainly due to a lack of staff.

Instead of focusing on what Blair did or didn't do, how would you address these worker shortages without immigration?

You don't think that immigration of over 2 million in 13 years is that much? That doesn't mean our population just increased by 2 million in that time, you have to take into account the births during that period as well, plus people living longer.

If you think they came to do jobs we wouldn't do, tell me why those British workers were protesting that they couldn't get jobs, that doesn't sound like people who don't want to work does it?

I’m not feeling the massive cultural enrichment.

Did they all came from the EU ? & thats a 13 year period, with an average net migration of 155k per year, considering they came to do jobs we wouldn't do, thats sustainable, current net migration of 700k plus is not.

These people came to work, they didn't bring their entire extended families with them, many are trafficked and all paying many £1000s to come here.

But however you look at it, migration each year is now 3x or 4x what it was in the 2000's

The refinery involved was being built by a French firm, Total, they can bring in whoever they want to construct the site.... so long as they comply with UK employment law, the workers they recruited, then returned to their home countries, after the site was built, plus the bit you miss out is that the Unions got Total to commit to employ UK staff, over half of the permanent staff were british.

How exactly would you force foreign owned companies to employ UK workers? they'd just take their investment elsewhere, a better way forward is to ensure UK workers have the skills and attitudes to make them the first choice for employment here.

Instead the essential worker visa scheme is constantly being expanded :(

Facts for you - between 1997-2010 net annual immigration quadrupled and the UK population was boosted by more than 2.2 million immigrants.

In 2009 there were protests by British Tradesmen over the decision to bring in hundreds of EU contractors to work on a new £200 million plant in North Lincolnshire. Our unions said that Brits were not given any opportunity to apply for the posts. This was after Gordon Brown had promised British jobs for British workers.

Statistics are based on small sample sizes and you never really know if they are reliable.

Of the 1.2 million legal migrants last year only 20,000 work in the NHS, and so although you are correct that migration is probably helping staff the NHS there are 1 million legal migrants who enter a lot of other industries.

Generally muslim women are less likely to work, It cited Office for National Statistics (ONS) figures for 2015 , which found 35% of all Muslim women from 16 to 64 were in employment. By contrast, 69% of all British working-age women were in employment between March and May this year.

@TickTockTickTok

complete whataboutery and a pathetic attempt to deflect from your attempt to slur all working people.

my comment relates only to the pathetic white thugs who set alight mosques and threw bricks at police, hospitalising several all because they foolishly believed racist misinformation that a Muslim immigrant who had arrived by boat a year ago had stabbed these poor little girls

thats not protest, that’s a a violent riot and absolutely no-one has the right to do that. I hope many are punished appropriately

Peaceful protest on the other hand is absolutely necessary in a democratic society.

how about you criticise the violent thugs who hijacked the horrific deaths of these little girls? Are you prepared to do that?

Well, some facts.... net migration averaged 240k from 2004 to 2012, then dropped, obv not all from the EU.... so not in the "millions from the EU" and UK citizens moved to the UK, 100s of '000s to work, study and retire.

The vast majority of these EU workers didn't bring in extended families, why would they?
They could send back CB and for most it was 2 or 3 hr cheap flight back home, they also did the jobs we didn't or couldn't do, after Brexit, they stopped coming here, many returned home.

Now, we have huge shortages in agri, care, health, food processing BUT more importantly, net migration isn't 240k, its 700k, its tripled, yet we still have labour shortages, because much of this 700k is dependents, double whammy, from a uk population pov is these people will never return.

We now have 10s of 1000s crossing the channel and no influence within the EU to stop it either.

We have made a tolerable situation intolerable & all our own doing :( i hope you didn't vote for this?

There has always been british jobs for british workers but if we don't wish to do them, then who is?

Would you say the same about the other mobs, who are continually roaming the country protesting and some carrying out illegal activities. Or in certain circumstances would that be considered racist.

A sad day when a Jewish person was told not to walk our streets because of the mob. When other groups freely, all over the streets of our country, wear garbs, they believe dictated by their culture.

A sad day when our own brave soldiers cannot walk the streets in uniform for fear of being murdered, or primary schoolchildren in Dublin, or a 7 year old little girl play in a park with her mummy and daddy on Mother’s Day, without having her throat slit. Or when the authorities continually step back and back to the demands of different cultures / community leaders appearing to be repeatedly be given kid glove treatment. Or feels their jobs and services are being taken from them and they are the left behind with no special help like others may get.

you get the picture, things build up and up and the perception becomes that being British British is being a second class citizen in their own country. They are allowed to be called names which they would likely be arrested for if they retaliated. Even the police being repeatedly called racist for merely walking down the street, often in response to things that happen in other countries and are nothing to do with them

The violence in Southport was totally unacceptable, so is all the violence, but people have excused much worse with excuses of being driven to it. The root cause cannot be ignored but as long as politicians chose to do that it ain’t going away, in fact quite the reverse. Look around Europe the right wing is on the rise.

i wonder if Sir Keir will defund the police, he was all in favour of it when he was younger, wrote a paper on it. Perhaps he has matured and learned from experience, like the ardent supporter of police defunding in the US until her Damascene conversion after a violent car jacking. That is the problem with many people they cannot see the problem until it affects them personally. A lesson for us all to learn, if we are open minded enough ;)

ExLineManagerIsABully
I find it disgusting and offensive that you believe that these thugs represent the working class. The contempt and disgust is on you“

I’d be extremely surprised if any of those knuckle draggers are working. Unlikely that a working person could move about the country when rent a mob is assembled.

@GreekDogRescue yep- I'm more than happy to state the facts ( in this particular case) I was specific about 'this bunch of roided up aggressive twats and many agree with me - it's absolutely nothing to do with hating' working people' - which by the way do you have a definition of ??- a senior level scientist or surgeon is a 'working person' or do they only count as 'working people' if they drive a van or are a scaffolder? It takes all kinds of 'working people' to make society work and most are not aggressive boozed up yobs-

I find it disgusting and offensive that you believe that these thugs represent the working class. The contempt and disgust is on you.

I quite agree with both of you!

Neither are all 'middle' or 'upper' class the same. Within each group there are variations.

Many from each category care very much about social issues and do their best to help and support others when and where they are able.

I'm working class and I agree with that poster. Not all "working people" are the same!

I haven’t watched the clip, but as I understand it, that poster wasn’t referring to ‘working people’, but to a specific set of racist rioters.

Wow.
Here we have a clear example of the contempt, snobbery and disgust the elite have for working people.

Migration only works both ways if all countries under FOM have the same standard of living. When Poland and Romania joined the EU their wages were so much lower and the then Labour government underestimated just how many migrants would come to Britain. They thought it would be in the thousands, it wasn't it was in the millions. When you have a large in flux like that it has an effect on the working class. There were protests, Gordon Brown promised British jobs for British workers, it didn't happen. Any concerns were shut down with shouts of racism and bigotry.

I don't believe anyone, either on the left or right of politics, has ever said we should have uncontrolled mass migration, can you link to those who have said this?
Even under FOM, migration worked both ways and was around, net 230k per year, many of whom have returned to the EU.

However, the Conservatives policy of leaving the EU has clearly had an effect on migration, its now running at over 700k per year, much of which are dependents, which, due to proximity, EU workers didn't take advantage of quite as much.

Why are you soooo aggressive? you ve just partly, agreed with me but display anger and rudeness toward posters, a bit rich seeing as you complained about it earlier yourself.

Why is better? those that fail would have still felt failures wouldn't they?

I just don't understand why anyone thinks segregating the academic is a good idea.