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Original poster

Daily mail article, integration has failed in Germany. Aibu to agree with article?

483 replies

Mimififi · 31/07/2024 12:00

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13687565/Children-radicalised-mosques-11-knives-crime-verdict-German-child-refugee-charity-integration-failed-asylum-seekers.html?ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490&ito=

Aibu to agree to an extent?

German refugee charity warns 'integration has FAILED'

In a bombshell interview, staff at a leading youth organisation in Germany have said the continuing influx of refugees means the system is at breaking point. They called for a 'freeze' in admissions.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13687565/Children-radicalised-mosques-11-knives-crime-verdict-German-child-refugee-charity-integration-failed-asylum-seekers.html?ito=social-twitter_mailonline&ns_campaign=1490&ns_mchannel=rss

OP posts:
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15
Tootjaskoot · 31/07/2024 18:14

Midnightalready · 31/07/2024 18:06

Yes, and as the articles explained, they didn't seek out ethics approval because they didn't set out to discover what they did. But I note that you are sidestepping the very inconvenient results of their study, and just trying to smear the articles reporting what happened.

Show quote history

Are you reading my posts? You can’t publish something for which you don’t have ethical approval, no matter what you find!

Tootjaskoot · 31/07/2024 18:12

EasternStandard · 31/07/2024 18:09

Would approval for that kind of study ever be given?

They might not want to redo but wondering what’s possible

Show quote history

It would be given if the criteria were met, and the research questions were valid according to research principles, and if the correct measures were put into place to mitigate potential harm to interview / research persons. It wouldn’t be dismissed out of hand, that’s for sure. But there are strict criteria and any study would have to meet them.

Original poster
Mimififi · 31/07/2024 18:11

Mimififi · 31/07/2024 15:59

Where have I specifically mentioned Muslim integration?

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I apologise @Piggywaspushed you are 100% correct. It was @Saschka who accused me of mentioning a religion which I never did it was a nationality (big difference!)
& it was you who said I implied the man committed the stabbings BECAUSE he was Algerian which I most certainly did not.

OP posts:
Tootjaskoot · 31/07/2024 18:10

EasternStandard · 31/07/2024 18:05

What do you think of the content?

Show quote history

I agree with the conclusions of the researchers, when they say:

“However, results should be interpreted with caution and avoid statements on causality as such statements could be misinterpreted and misused, particularly if contextual factors, such as socioeconomic status, marital status, psychiatric disorders and lack of integration are not taken into account. Lack of integration often includes poor language skills and being unemployed. There may also be other factors associated with our findings that have not been explored. For example, possible bias against immigrants at the policing and prosecution level is a factor that cannot be ignored.“

What do you think of the content?

EasternStandard · 31/07/2024 18:09

Midnightalready · 31/07/2024 18:06

Yes, and as the articles explained, they didn't seek out ethics approval because they didn't set out to discover what they did. But I note that you are sidestepping the very inconvenient results of their study, and just trying to smear the articles reporting what happened.

Show quote history

Would approval for that kind of study ever be given?

They might not want to redo but wondering what’s possible

Flibflobflibflob · 31/07/2024 18:08

I think it’s quite depressing that the charity said that girls over 13 weren’t allowed to attend their sessions. That is a problem, if you are going to invite people into your country the women and girls need to be given the same access to opportunity as any other citizen of their country. You really do need to demand it on their behalf.

Midnightalready · 31/07/2024 18:06

Tootjaskoot · 31/07/2024 18:03

Again, just to point out that these links are misleading, the researchers were not prosecuted for the content of their article. They were prosecuted in relation to lack of ethics approval for the research.

Show quote history

Yes, and as the articles explained, they didn't seek out ethics approval because they didn't set out to discover what they did. But I note that you are sidestepping the very inconvenient results of their study, and just trying to smear the articles reporting what happened.

Original poster
Mimififi · 31/07/2024 18:06

Piggywaspushed · 31/07/2024 18:03

I have never mentioned religion. Not once. Unless Algerian is a religion.
Feel free to check back.
I have nothing to apologise for.

Show quote history

I will check back. You blatently posted on mumsnet that I said the man in Dublin committee the stabbings BECAUSE he is Algerian.
I'm not letting this go by the way.
I stated his nationality as a it's fact.

OP posts:
Tootjaskoot · 31/07/2024 18:06

Ethical approval is needed by law for research involving humans and / or involving sensitive data, including ethnicity. If someone wants to research the issue, they have the freedom to do so provided they have the correct ethical approval.

EasternStandard · 31/07/2024 18:05

Tootjaskoot · 31/07/2024 18:04

It’s not splitting hairs. It’s explaining what they were actually prosecuted for, so that people know. And the fact that they didn’t set out to investigate it but did so anyway without, it was suspected, the correct ethical approval, is the problem.

Show quote history

What do you think of the content?

Tootjaskoot · 31/07/2024 18:04

Midnightalready · 31/07/2024 18:02

Splitting hairs much? Why don't you address the substance of their findings? They didn't even set out to investigate this issue, it just emerged loud and clear in their data.

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It’s not splitting hairs. It’s explaining what they were actually prosecuted for, so that people know. And the fact that they didn’t set out to investigate it but did so anyway without, it was suspected, the correct ethical approval, is the problem.

Original poster
Mimififi · 31/07/2024 18:03

Tootjaskoot · 31/07/2024 18:00

This is misleading. They were prosecuted on suspicion of not having the correct ethical approval for the study. They were not prosecuted for the content per se.

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Just out of interest why would ethical approval be needed? And going as far as prosecuting?
Surely it's for the greater good to get as much statistical information as possible surrounding heinous crimes such as rape ?

OP posts:
Tootjaskoot · 31/07/2024 18:03

Mimififi · 31/07/2024 18:01

Wow, that made an interesting read. I didn't know this. Thank you for sharing

Show quote history

Again, just to point out that these links are misleading, the researchers were not prosecuted for the content of their article. They were prosecuted in relation to lack of ethics approval for the research.

Piggywaspushed · 31/07/2024 18:03

Mimififi · 31/07/2024 17:49

Can you clarify if this is an apology for you accusing me of saying the man committed the stabbings BECAUSE of his nationality.
I'm not letting this go by the way until you retract his His was mentioned mental health in a prior post but not by me. I replied "mental health card". Nice. In response to the poster who pulled the man's mental health into the discussion when it was irrelevant just like you who brought religion in when it was never mentioned.

Show quote history

I have never mentioned religion. Not once. Unless Algerian is a religion.
Feel free to check back.
I have nothing to apologise for.

Midnightalready · 31/07/2024 18:02

Tootjaskoot · 31/07/2024 18:00

This is misleading. They were prosecuted on suspicion of not having the correct ethical approval for the study. They were not prosecuted for the content per se.

Show quote history

Splitting hairs much? Why don't you address the substance of their findings? They didn't even set out to investigate this issue, it just emerged loud and clear in their data.

OP posts:
Tootjaskoot · 31/07/2024 18:00

Midnightalready · 31/07/2024 17:53

https://portal.research.lu.se/en/activities/swedish-researchers-face-prosecution-for-study-about-immigrants-p

https://rmx.news/article/swedish-scientists-prosecuted-for-finding-that-most-rapes-are-committed-by-immigrants/

https://www.opindia.com/2021/11/sweden-lund-university-researcher-faces-prosecution-for-study-post-rapes-committed-by-immigrants/

There are others. It was reported quite widely.

Show quote history

This is misleading. They were prosecuted on suspicion of not having the correct ethical approval for the study. They were not prosecuted for the content per se.

Midnightalready · 31/07/2024 17:53

EasternStandard · 31/07/2024 17:51

I wasn’t sure what this was so googled and it has been picked up by many

Could you link to something about the prosecution? seems strange but maybe I’m missing a factor

Show quote history

See my previous post. I don't think it's particularly strange. Inconvenient truths and all that. One of the authors of the paper was themselves an immigrant.

Original poster
Mimififi · 31/07/2024 17:52

Sunhatweather · 31/07/2024 17:49

This is it. This is why we need to be able to speak honestly and openly about what is happening without being called racist.
I’ve had similar experiences, yet also have some amazing friends from a number of different backgrounds and religions who would be appalled at these types of behaviour.
I’m from an immigrant background. I have light brown skin, so not ‘white’.
We need to be able to talk about religious fundamentalism, especially within Islam, which is a growing faith/culture here, and how it clashes with UK culture of sexual equality and acceptance of LGBTQ+. That’s not racist - it’s people wanting to ensure UK laws and culture is respected while welcoming people of different cultures here.

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That would involve mature open minded debate which is impossible on mumsnet as a certain cohort are only capable of throwing out "bigot" "far right" & "racist" slurs at concerned posters.

OP posts:
EasternStandard · 31/07/2024 17:51

Midnightalready · 31/07/2024 17:42

Three Swedish academics researching this analysis of rapes and sexual assaults accidentally stumbled on some shocking data about migrant status. They were subsequently prosecuted for publishing it.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8330751/

Show quote history

I wasn’t sure what this was so googled and it has been picked up by many

Could you link to something about the prosecution? seems strange but maybe I’m missing a factor

Original poster
Mimififi · 31/07/2024 17:49

Piggywaspushed · 31/07/2024 17:40

Excellent so probably not a failure to integrate then and no longer necessarily his Algerianness. But not mental illness because that was a 'card'.

Got it.

Show quote history

Can you clarify if this is an apology for you accusing me of saying the man committed the stabbings BECAUSE of his nationality.
I'm not letting this go by the way until you retract his His was mentioned mental health in a prior post but not by me. I replied "mental health card". Nice. In response to the poster who pulled the man's mental health into the discussion when it was irrelevant just like you who brought religion in when it was never mentioned.

OP posts:
Sunhatweather · 31/07/2024 17:49

Bushmillsbabe · 31/07/2024 17:16

Unfortunately I had a very similar experience. We used to live in London in an area with a high Somalian and Pakistani commuinity, and going to the park and to school was a really isolating experience. My daughter got called a 'trashy white slut' at 4 for wearing shorts in the summer and when children played with her they were called over by their mums and told not to. No one would speak to me. At school she was really isolated, so part of the way through reception we moved out of London to a small village, which was much friendlier and more open commuinity towards us.

Show quote history

This is it. This is why we need to be able to speak honestly and openly about what is happening without being called racist.
I’ve had similar experiences, yet also have some amazing friends from a number of different backgrounds and religions who would be appalled at these types of behaviour.
I’m from an immigrant background. I have light brown skin, so not ‘white’.
We need to be able to talk about religious fundamentalism, especially within Islam, which is a growing faith/culture here, and how it clashes with UK culture of sexual equality and acceptance of LGBTQ+. That’s not racist - it’s people wanting to ensure UK laws and culture is respected while welcoming people of different cultures here.

Tootjaskoot · 31/07/2024 17:48

Midnightalready · 31/07/2024 17:42

Three Swedish academics researching this analysis of rapes and sexual assaults accidentally stumbled on some shocking data about migrant status. They were subsequently prosecuted for publishing it.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8330751/

Show quote history

Link to the info about them being prosecuted for publishing it?

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