Page 4 | Daily mail article, integration has failed in Germany. Aibu to agree with article?

Mimififi · 2024-07-31T11:00:32+00:00

[[https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13687565/Children-radicalised-mosques-11-knives-crime-verdict-German-child-refugee-charity-integration-failed-asylum-seekers.html?ito=social-twitter_mailonline&ns_campaign=1490&ns_mchannel=rss https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13687565/Children-radicalised-mosques-11-knives-crime-verdict-German-child-refugee-charity-integration-failed-asylum-seekers.html?ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490&ito=]] Aibu to agree to an extent?

Original poster

Mimififi · 31/07/2024 18:44

https://www.europeandatajournalism.eu/cp_data_news/female-rape-victims-in-ireland-almost-treble-that-of-eu-counterparts/

Found the statistics from Sweden interesting & wanted to see how it fared in relation to the rest of the EU. According to this information Ireland has TREBLE the amount of rape victims in comparison to EU counterparts. That is shocking.

Female rape victims in Ireland almost treble that of EU counterparts - European Data Journalism Network - EDJNet

The number of female rape victims in Ireland is almost three times higher than the EU country average, new research by Noteworthy and the European Data Journalism Network (EDJNet) has found. Staggering statistics reveal how in 2022 alone, the average...

https://www.europeandatajournalism.eu/cp_data_news/female-rape-victims-in-ireland-almost-treble-that-of-eu-counterparts

OP posts:

cardibach · 31/07/2024 18:39

Midnightalready · 31/07/2024 18:21

I don't care about research ethics. I care about what their study clearly showed. My personal ethics are inconvenient truths should be given plenty of sunlight and scrutiny.

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They themselves say t(e study doesn’t clearly show anyth8ng. Because the data emerged unexpectedly they weren’t able to check causality - which may be more to do with poverty than ethnicity. Or may not. That’s why you have to carry out studies within ethical frameworks.

Original poster

Mimififi · 31/07/2024 18:36

Tootjaskoot · 31/07/2024 18:35

All the decisions are taken by the Swedish Research Ethics Board etikprovningsmyndigheten.se/en/

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Thanks a million.

OP posts:

Original poster

Mimififi · 31/07/2024 18:36

Flibflobflibflob · 31/07/2024 18:19

Looks like the Germans are trying to get an agreement with Syria and Afghanistan to take back criminals. Clearly they think theres a problem.

I’m fine with that tbh, people who want to live in peace and get on with their lives and give their children a decent future should be embraced. If you move somewhere that provides you asylum and then proceed to commit crimes off you fuck.

Edited

This is it exactly. Surely those who move to a new culture or are seeking asylum should adapt & integrate to their new environment.
Why are some expecting their new country to change & adapt to the culture they are supposed to be fleeing & seeking asylum from?

OP posts:

Tootjaskoot · 31/07/2024 18:35

Mimififi · 31/07/2024 18:33

I don't agree with this being against research ethics as surely all information gathered is good for society? Also who exactly decides if it's against research ethics?
Thanks for explaining @Tootjaskoot

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All the decisions are taken by the Swedish Research Ethics Board etikprovningsmyndigheten.se/en/

Stephy1886 · 31/07/2024 18:33

Imagine believing what the daily Mail publish

Original poster

Mimififi · 31/07/2024 18:33

Tootjaskoot · 31/07/2024 18:19

It is against research ethics, these are procedures researchers have to follow. What they found may well have application (although they themselves acknowledge the limitations of the study and warn against assuming causality), but my point is that they were not being prosecuted for the content of their study, it was because it was suspected they didn’t have ethical approval. They could seek it for a future study, and do the research if it passes.

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I don't agree with this being against research ethics as surely all information gathered is good for society? Also who exactly decides if it's against research ethics?
Thanks for explaining @Tootjaskoot

OP posts:

Flowers4me · 31/07/2024 18:31

ViciousCurrentBun · 31/07/2024 16:23

I have a foot in both camps my Mum was white and my Dad was from a commonwealth country and arrived as a documented economic migrant in the 1960’s.

The issue is both the far right and left. Now whilst the far right have had a riot and that is obviously bad the far left due to white guilt are really not helping the situation because every single time anyone shows any kind of concern they get shouted down as racist. It’s an actual problem.

The extreme left by shouting people down who have legitimate concerns have actually fuelled the rise of the far right. As unpalatable as that is it is most definitely an unintended consequence.

Well said.

Tootjaskoot · 31/07/2024 18:31

EasternStandard · 31/07/2024 18:27

Yes but it’s the section you copied rather than the key points.

People seem to be skirting around what the study actually says

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I’m personally not giving any further comment on the content because a) I haven’t had time to read it in full, only skim it, and b) I am sceptical about it due to the ethical concerns (although they did actually get acquitted because they couldn’t prove criminal intent behind the lack of ethics approval, but still)

ditismooi · 31/07/2024 18:30

Dylanesque · 31/07/2024 18:15

I followed other links from the Swedish researchers story and it's shocking how much Germany is spending on supporting their mass immigration. I fail to understand how immigrants on welfare benefits bring improvements to any country
https://rmx.news/trending/nearly-1-in-20-of-all-syrians-now-lives-in-germany-over-half-receive-welfare/

hmm .. interesting read around the history of this website this poster has quoted from

Down this rabbit hole - check the source -Down this rabbit hole - check the source -Down this rabbit hole - check the source -Down this rabbit hole - check the source -

Dulra · 31/07/2024 18:28

Piggywaspushed · 31/07/2024 18:03

I have never mentioned religion. Not once. Unless Algerian is a religion.
Feel free to check back.
I have nothing to apologise for.

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FWIW This is the exchange about the Algerian in Dublin

OP
From what I hear Ireland is no better now. Mass discontent with government & huge riots last year in the capital after multiple children were stabbed.

Me
Yes incited by the far right and misinformation. We have a far right problem not an integration problem

OP
Interesting take @Dulra . The Algerian man who stabbed the chilren & carers had been in Ireland 20 years & does this. I don't think he integrated too well somehow.

OP was the only person to mention the attempted murderers nationality and to claim he didn't integrate well. As they say if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck you can be pretty sure it is a duck.

EasternStandard · 31/07/2024 18:27

Tootjaskoot · 31/07/2024 18:26

No, I don’t think it’s because the results wouldn’t be welcome. I think it’s fairly standard practice to point out the limitations of any study, especially nowadays with social media. It stops things being deliberately misinterpreted or twisted.

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Yes but it’s the section you copied rather than the key points.

People seem to be skirting around what the study actually says

Tootjaskoot · 31/07/2024 18:26

EasternStandard · 31/07/2024 18:24

This is more the disclaimers to the results though

Is that because the key points are not welcome?

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No, I don’t think it’s because the results wouldn’t be welcome. I think it’s fairly standard practice to point out the limitations of any study, especially nowadays with social media. It stops things being deliberately misinterpreted or twisted.

EasternStandard · 31/07/2024 18:24

Tootjaskoot · 31/07/2024 18:10

I agree with the conclusions of the researchers, when they say:

“However, results should be interpreted with caution and avoid statements on causality as such statements could be misinterpreted and misused, particularly if contextual factors, such as socioeconomic status, marital status, psychiatric disorders and lack of integration are not taken into account. Lack of integration often includes poor language skills and being unemployed. There may also be other factors associated with our findings that have not been explored. For example, possible bias against immigrants at the policing and prosecution level is a factor that cannot be ignored.“

What do you think of the content?

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This is more the disclaimers to the results though

Is that because the key points are not welcome?

Tootjaskoot · 31/07/2024 18:23

Midnightalready · 31/07/2024 18:21

I don't care about research ethics. I care about what their study clearly showed. My personal ethics are inconvenient truths should be given plenty of sunlight and scrutiny.

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You may not care about research ethics. That’s up to you. But if you are a researcher in Sweden, you are obliged to follow them. It’s not a big deal, and I promise you it’s not the big government censorship operation you appear to think it is.

Midnightalready · 31/07/2024 18:21

Piggywaspushed · 31/07/2024 18:20

Do you understand research ethics? That isn't the poster's ethical framework!

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I don't care about research ethics. I care about what their study clearly showed. My personal ethics are inconvenient truths should be given plenty of sunlight and scrutiny.

Tootjaskoot · 31/07/2024 18:20

Midnightalready · 31/07/2024 18:18

I am reading your posts, but I don't accept your own ethical framework. You seem to be hiding behind procedure. Are you suggesting that the truth shouldn't be investigated? Or that they shouldn't have disclosed what they found?

Why do you keep refusing to address the results of their study?

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I literally addressed the results in several posts now. I’m not suggesting anything, and the ethical framework you refer to is not mine, it is that of the Swedish government / lawmakers.

Piggywaspushed · 31/07/2024 18:20

Midnightalready · 31/07/2024 18:18

I am reading your posts, but I don't accept your own ethical framework. You seem to be hiding behind procedure. Are you suggesting that the truth shouldn't be investigated? Or that they shouldn't have disclosed what they found?

Why do you keep refusing to address the results of their study?

Show quote history

Do you understand research ethics? That isn't the poster's ethical framework!

Flibflobflibflob · 31/07/2024 18:19

Looks like the Germans are trying to get an agreement with Syria and Afghanistan to take back criminals. Clearly they think theres a problem.

I’m fine with that tbh, people who want to live in peace and get on with their lives and give their children a decent future should be embraced. If you move somewhere that provides you asylum and then proceed to commit crimes off you fuck.

Tootjaskoot · 31/07/2024 18:19

Mimififi · 31/07/2024 18:16

But what exactly is unethical about unearthing information that could potentially prevent even 1 rape? Surely it's for the greater good?

It is against research ethics, these are procedures researchers have to follow. What they found may well have application (although they themselves acknowledge the limitations of the study and warn against assuming causality), but my point is that they were not being prosecuted for the content of their study, it was because it was suspected they didn’t have ethical approval. They could seek it for a future study, and do the research if it passes.

Midnightalready · 31/07/2024 18:18

Tootjaskoot · 31/07/2024 18:14

Are you reading my posts? You can’t publish something for which you don’t have ethical approval, no matter what you find!

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I am reading your posts, but I don't accept your own ethical framework. You seem to be hiding behind procedure. Are you suggesting that the truth shouldn't be investigated? Or that they shouldn't have disclosed what they found?

Why do you keep refusing to address the results of their study?

EasternStandard · 31/07/2024 18:16

Tootjaskoot · 31/07/2024 18:10

I agree with the conclusions of the researchers, when they say:

“However, results should be interpreted with caution and avoid statements on causality as such statements could be misinterpreted and misused, particularly if contextual factors, such as socioeconomic status, marital status, psychiatric disorders and lack of integration are not taken into account. Lack of integration often includes poor language skills and being unemployed. There may also be other factors associated with our findings that have not been explored. For example, possible bias against immigrants at the policing and prosecution level is a factor that cannot be ignored.“

What do you think of the content?

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My first thought was I don’t often see this stark conclusion in a study that has seemingly been picked up widely. From the report

Key points

Rape, aggravated rape, attempted rape or attempted aggravated rape (rape+) are increasing in Sweden.
The majority of those convicted of rape+ are immigrants.

What I think overall takes multiple voices and studies which I wouldn’t say I have. But I would welcome more analysis

Original poster

Mimififi · 31/07/2024 18:16

But what exactly is unethical about unearthing information that could potentially prevent even 1 rape? Surely it's for the greater good?

OP posts:

Dylanesque · 31/07/2024 18:15

I followed other links from the Swedish researchers story and it's shocking how much Germany is spending on supporting their mass immigration. I fail to understand how immigrants on welfare benefits bring improvements to any country
https://rmx.news/trending/nearly-1-in-20-of-all-syrians-now-lives-in-germany-over-half-receive-welfare/

Nearly 1 in 20 of all Syrians now lives in Germany, over half receive welfare

Ever since the 2015/16 migrant crisis, Syrians have arrived in Germany in ever-increasing numbers, and now number at least 972,000 at the end of 2023, according to Statista. There are 22 million Syrians living in Syria itself, meaning those in Germany...

https://rmx.news/trending/nearly-1-in-20-of-all-syrians-now-lives-in-germany-over-half-receive-welfare

Midnightalready · 31/07/2024 18:15

EasternStandard · 31/07/2024 18:09

Would approval for that kind of study ever be given?

They might not want to redo but wondering what’s possible

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You're probably right, given the political climate this kind of study would never get approval in the first place. That in itself is shocking, and tantamount to the suppression of truth in service to an ideology. Orwell wouldn't be surprised.

But none of that negates the reality of what they discovered.