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Daily mail article, integration has failed in Germany. Aibu to agree with article?

483 replies

Mimififi · 31/07/2024 12:00

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13687565/Children-radicalised-mosques-11-knives-crime-verdict-German-child-refugee-charity-integration-failed-asylum-seekers.html?ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490&ito=

Aibu to agree to an extent?

German refugee charity warns 'integration has FAILED'

In a bombshell interview, staff at a leading youth organisation in Germany have said the continuing influx of refugees means the system is at breaking point. They called for a 'freeze' in admissions.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13687565/Children-radicalised-mosques-11-knives-crime-verdict-German-child-refugee-charity-integration-failed-asylum-seekers.html?ito=social-twitter_mailonline&ns_campaign=1490&ns_mchannel=rss

OP posts:
Thread gallery
15
Blackcats7 · 31/07/2024 20:32

I would call myself left wing. Life long labour voter. Detest racism. Think people fleeing genuine terror need our help.
However I think the assumptions and name calling if anybody mentions immigration are not helpful and actually fuel racism in previously more moderate people.
The OP is right that #no debate is not a useful stance.
We need to talk about this important issue with balance and respect or things will never improve for anybody including immigrants.
Compromise is not a dirty word. Changes need to be made to the current situation so that our country holds together. Instead we are becoming increasingly polarised and low life like Farage take advantage of this. Some of his supporters are indeed life long racists but some are not. Coming together would pull the rug from under actual far right groups. Carrying on labelling anyone who disagrees as a bigot will play right into their hands. Is this actually what we want?
Extremism whether left or right or indeed on any issue is always dangerous.

Papyrophile · 31/07/2024 20:31

Regardless of the ethical framework and conduct of the research, about which I know little, as long at the statistical fact gathering was not selective, and all the facts were included, proven and published, then the conclusion is admissable. .

There was an interesting section on Woman's Hour today about the convicted Dutch child rape competitor and whether he should have been allowed to compete at all. Netherlands law on rape has sentences from 21 days up to years, depending on the circumstances surrounding the offence. I knew nothing about the background to the case, and didn't hear all of it, so not volunteering an opinion but the female boxers expected to fight Taiwanese trans men boxers left me feeling that there's not a fair playing field.

RomanticOutlaws · 31/07/2024 20:26

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Scarletrunner · 31/07/2024 20:22

Lilysgoneshopping · 31/07/2024 12:40

Angela Merkels open door immigration policy.
Did anyone ask the Germans if they wanted this?

Was this like Tony Blair's open door policy that lead to Brexit?

Mimififi · 31/07/2024 20:22

Piggywaspushed · 31/07/2024 20:05

Ethnicity was the word I used as it goes.

Note for future - you can just say man . The man who attacked the children. But that wouldn't have worked in your post because you followed it up with your point about integration. I agree you did not mention religion which you said others had accused you of blaming (and at first blamed me for this). But you specifically raised a new event (like you have done throughout the thread) so one can only assume that you felt it was helpful to your cause : that it was to do with that man's failure to integrate into non Algerian culture - which, yes, does imply (maybe not intentionally) that Algerian culture is murderous and hate fuelled and infanticidal. Otherwise, I have no idea what you are saying. I didn't fellow the case closely but I assume the man is now incarcerated.

Also, note for future accusations. It's blatant.

Over and out.

You said the word you used is "ethnicity". Here is a screenshot of why exactly you said. I don't see "ethnicity" in here. What you said is the op suggested "BECAUSE" he is Algerian. You posted this at 16.37. It's there in black & white. Where did you say "ethnicity"?
screenshot of @Piggywaspushed post from 16.37 attached

Daily mail article, integration has failed in Germany. Aibu to agree with article?
OP posts:
Lalalalalaaaa · 31/07/2024 20:20

EasternStandard · 31/07/2024 20:13

When can Algerian be used in a sentence, I mean it’s not like we use man and women for everything we do actually use language that is specific

I don’t see the sentence used by the op as problematic, if it were I’m sure someone would have reported it and mnhq delete it.

The issue isn't the OP's use of the word Algerian in the sentence. It's her trying to argue that it was just a throw away descriptor and she didn't mean anything by it. In particular that posters saying that she was implying that the attacker being Algerian was a factor in the attack. If it wasn't relevant that the attacker was Algerian the OP wouldn't have mentioned it and then said he hadn't integrated.

Separately, it obviously is relevant given the entire discussion is around immigration failing and leading to crime and other issues. The Dublin example is a pretty pointless one unless it's being used to illustrate those concerns.

TinklySnail · 31/07/2024 20:17

Lalalalalaaaa · 31/07/2024 20:11

The Wikipedia pages says that the arrests were of Romanian citizens (not necessarily immigrants of course) and that the Romanian embassy is supporting the family of the child. Appreciate not all Roma Gypsies are Romanian, but the child in question does appear to be (but may not be an immigration). I don't have a clue who led the riots but I suspect no one particular group in reality. This doesn't appear to have been organized in any way.

But anyway, the OP says she just mentioned them as an example of a riot and to show that she condemns all riots. Although her using her reference to Dublin aw also supporting her general condemnation and not (for example) Ely, means I am having to work very hard to believe that Leeds was only mentioned because it was recent and not because she thought it supported her anti-immigration stance.

Maybe it was just an example of lack of integration. It is very important for anyone to integrate.
We all have to do it whether it’s integration in a new school, workplace or country.
The majority do integrate but we do of course have those who haven’t and it’s those that refuse to that most people feel hostile towards. Doesn’t matter what country it is or where you’re from.

EasternStandard · 31/07/2024 20:13

When can Algerian be used in a sentence, I mean it’s not like we use man and women for everything we do actually use language that is specific

I don’t see the sentence used by the op as problematic, if it were I’m sure someone would have reported it and mnhq delete it.

MidnightMusing5 · 31/07/2024 20:12

You lost me at daily fail….

Lalalalalaaaa · 31/07/2024 20:11

TinklySnail · 31/07/2024 20:02

The Leeds riots were led by the Romanian community, according to news articles.
Is this incorrect?

The Wikipedia pages says that the arrests were of Romanian citizens (not necessarily immigrants of course) and that the Romanian embassy is supporting the family of the child. Appreciate not all Roma Gypsies are Romanian, but the child in question does appear to be (but may not be an immigration). I don't have a clue who led the riots but I suspect no one particular group in reality. This doesn't appear to have been organized in any way.

But anyway, the OP says she just mentioned them as an example of a riot and to show that she condemns all riots. Although her using her reference to Dublin aw also supporting her general condemnation and not (for example) Ely, means I am having to work very hard to believe that Leeds was only mentioned because it was recent and not because she thought it supported her anti-immigration stance.

Mimififi · 31/07/2024 20:10

Piggywaspushed · 31/07/2024 20:05

Ethnicity was the word I used as it goes.

Note for future - you can just say man . The man who attacked the children. But that wouldn't have worked in your post because you followed it up with your point about integration. I agree you did not mention religion which you said others had accused you of blaming (and at first blamed me for this). But you specifically raised a new event (like you have done throughout the thread) so one can only assume that you felt it was helpful to your cause : that it was to do with that man's failure to integrate into non Algerian culture - which, yes, does imply (maybe not intentionally) that Algerian culture is murderous and hate fuelled and infanticidal. Otherwise, I have no idea what you are saying. I didn't fellow the case closely but I assume the man is now incarcerated.

Also, note for future accusations. It's blatant.

Over and out.

Why? Why should I just say man? Why should any nationality be glossed over? I'm proud to be English, I'll always refer to myself as English. The media referred to the man as Algerian why can't I? The media didn't refer to him "a man" like you are suggesting I should!
Why exactly are you trying to police my speech & tell me what to say?

OP posts:
ilovesooty · 31/07/2024 20:09

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

That sounds a bit threatening.

Wellieswithsocks · 31/07/2024 20:07

TinklySnail · 31/07/2024 20:02

The Leeds riots were led by the Romanian community, according to news articles.
Is this incorrect?

No, its correct.

Wellieswithsocks · 31/07/2024 20:07

Piggywaspushed · 31/07/2024 19:59

It's in the article the OP originally posted form ITV about the riots. It said tow were arrested, one was named Mark something very ordinary.

I have no idea if it is representative form the sample of two named men in the article.

I doubt you do either.

This is a bit like trying to have a discussion with the frogs that sit around our garden pond in the evening.
But worse - much worse.

Piggywaspushed · 31/07/2024 20:05

Mimififi · 31/07/2024 19:58

You blatently said I insinuated he attacked the children BECAUSE of his nationality.

Ethnicity was the word I used as it goes.

Note for future - you can just say man . The man who attacked the children. But that wouldn't have worked in your post because you followed it up with your point about integration. I agree you did not mention religion which you said others had accused you of blaming (and at first blamed me for this). But you specifically raised a new event (like you have done throughout the thread) so one can only assume that you felt it was helpful to your cause : that it was to do with that man's failure to integrate into non Algerian culture - which, yes, does imply (maybe not intentionally) that Algerian culture is murderous and hate fuelled and infanticidal. Otherwise, I have no idea what you are saying. I didn't fellow the case closely but I assume the man is now incarcerated.

Also, note for future accusations. It's blatant.

Over and out.

OP posts:
Mimififi · 31/07/2024 20:02

Piggywaspushed · 31/07/2024 19:48

I never said he had or hadn't.

Plenty of Irish born people are also in homeless accommodation ,no doubt.

What have they not integrated into?

Yes there absolutely is many, many Irish homeless too I'm sure. I'll google now for stats.
The government & society has failed to get these people both Irish & non Irish integrated into society to live independently. It is a travesty that is not being addressed enough across Europe. So much more needs to be done.
To me proper integration means shelter, food, warmth, ability to love independent from the state, proficient in the local language, access to healthcare, ability to clothe oneself, children receiving a stellar education.

OP posts:
TinklySnail · 31/07/2024 20:02

Piggywaspushed · 31/07/2024 19:57

Just to be crystal clear, they weren't Romanian immigrants.

Edited

The Leeds riots were led by the Romanian community, according to news articles.
Is this incorrect?

Piggywaspushed · 31/07/2024 19:59

Wellieswithsocks · 31/07/2024 19:56

Who’s Mark? Ah, I see… perhaps you have identified an unrepresentative example among the 20+ arrested and patting yourself on the back for concocting some sort of misleading ‘gotcha’?

The school holidays have a lot to answer for.

It's in the article the OP originally posted form ITV about the riots. It said tow were arrested, one was named Mark something very ordinary.

I have no idea if it is representative form the sample of two named men in the article.

I doubt you do either.

Mimififi · 31/07/2024 19:58

Piggywaspushed · 31/07/2024 19:50

You have made that clear now.

But you have just once again repeated the idea that he failed to integrate so I'm a bit confused.

I'm not sure why you are threatening me. Or what with.

You blatently said I insinuated he attacked the children BECAUSE of his nationality.

OP posts:
TinklySnail · 31/07/2024 19:58

Lalalalalaaaa · 31/07/2024 19:48

Looking at Wikipedia, it does look like the child in question has Romanian citizenship. Not clear if the child and the people involved in rioting were immigrants or simply dual nationals. The social media on this certainly didn't play out as this being a group of Romanians rioting!

But I am interested in whether that's why the OP raised it. Seems a tenuous link to be honest - systematic discrimination against the Roma community is a centuries old issue in the UK and Europe and not one particularly linked to immigration that I'm aware of.

Edited

Systematic discrimination against Romanian’s in the UK for centuries?
Can you elaborate?

Piggywaspushed · 31/07/2024 19:57

Lalalalalaaaa · 31/07/2024 19:43

Ah, you think the OP raised because the rioters were Romanian immigrants?

Can you confirm that OP?

Just to be crystal clear, they weren't Romanian immigrants.

Wellieswithsocks · 31/07/2024 19:56

Piggywaspushed · 31/07/2024 19:49

Who? The arrested man called Mark?

Who’s Mark? Ah, I see… perhaps you have identified an unrepresentative example among the 20+ arrested and patting yourself on the back for concocting some sort of misleading ‘gotcha’?

The school holidays have a lot to answer for.

Mimififi · 31/07/2024 19:52

Lalalalalaaaa · 31/07/2024 19:19

@Mimififi Why did you mention the Leeds riots? I am trying my best not to jump to an assumption as to why you thought they were relevant to the thread, so it would help if you could explain.

I mentioned them to point out to an Op that I don't agree with rioting of any kind. The Leeds riots are still fresh in the publics mind, now Southport. If anything it shows how situations & tensions can escalate so quickly. Is there a reason why the Leeds riots shouldn't be mentioned that I am unaware of? I have also mentioned the Dublin riots last year which have you an issue with this too?

OP posts:
Piggywaspushed · 31/07/2024 19:50

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

You have made that clear now.

But you have just once again repeated the idea that he failed to integrate so I'm a bit confused.

I'm not sure why you are threatening me. Or what with.

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