Daily mail article, integration has failed in Germany. Aibu to agree with article?

Presumably any of the countries that the more militant Muslims now living in parts of Europe hail from?

This

I would love to have a proper, reasonable debate about immigration, integration and inclusion. But not one which is informed by a Daily Mail article which has a very clear agenda that isn't about integration and inclusion.

It would be wonderful if we could have these conversations without them being shut down with accusations of racism, but unfortunately the racists just keep on saying racist things, so what can we do?

Why is it that whenever someone says something that someone on the left finds uncomfortable they try to shut down the debate?

Germany's economy is tanking, that's a big reason why they're feeling fed up. That was Merkel's fault for jacking in nuclear power and making them totally reliant on Nordstream 2. So it's all been downhill since early 2022.

People rarely worry about 'immigration' and 'foreigners' when an economy's going gangbusters. But when it falters they look for people to blame. Same old story for centuries.

Mind you, you'd have thought that Germany would be a bit more careful about falling into that trap, considering what happened last time.

What would you do to manage integration? You say that the situation is bad - what are your ideas on how we can improve it?

Your article here is the first I’ve seen about multiculturalism and the integration of people from different cultures in Germany. That’s because I don’t follow German news and haven’t seen any reporting on it from British news outlets.

I have seen a lot of articles about multiculturalism in the U.K. over the last few months though. Those articles pretty much all say multiculturalism has failed, and they are all from either the Daily Mail or the Daily Telegraph. Most of those were written or signed off by Suella Braverman.

Every single time I have read those articles, I’ve had the same thought. It’s the job of the government to manage integration and to ensure our society is working for everyone. If it is has actually ‘failed’, they clearly haven’t been effective in managing it and it is their problem to sort out.

Normally they will blame others for this failing. They always blame others for it. Usually they blame migrants or asylum seekers, who are vulnerable either because they are fleeing horrible situations in their own countries or vulnerable because of their economic situation. It is unacceptable for them to blame others for their own failings on this. Sometimes they blame Labour, which I always find a bit of a stretch. Yes, Labour didn’t always manage immigration and multiculturalism well when they were in power, but they haven’t been in power for the last 14 years, so it really is a leap to blame them.

I agree with you @Mimififi but you won't get anywhere on here. The racist comments will flood in. Hence why this country is in the mess it's in because there can never be a proper discussion on the problems of mass illegal immigration.

I thought Christianity was supposed to be all about love and compassion, OP. Did you not get the memo?

I know some wonderful, incredible compassionate Christians that have dedicated their lives to helping people of all faiths and none, who are fleeing from war, persecution and other desperate circumstances. I don't share their views but I am in awe of their work and have enormous respect and admiration for them.

But people who wear the badge without bothering to walk the walk? I can't see the point.

I think we should be able to debate these issues like adults without shutting down the debate altogether with cries of ‘racism’ etc.

I support immigration and see it as a social good overall, but I think managing it carefully with better integration, more community-based assistance for migrants could help to mitigate some of the issues that Germany, the U.K. and France are currently facing.

I’m not sure what the answer is - but I don’t think its helpful to condemn people, call them insulting names or accusing them of racism for asking these questions.

Thanks for posting this interesting article OP! Food for thought.

Welcome to mumsnet @Mimififi !

Out of interest were you out on the streets in Southport last night, wearing a balaclava and lobbing bricks at police officers?

MN is very polarised on these kinds of issues.

I'll start as the OP probably won't.

Where are you in Germany?

How do you find the trains?

To quote the poster above your @TakeMe2Insanity

"Immigration isn’t a two way process if it was people wouldn’t bother moving. People generally move to places that give them safety, security and prosperity."

I may go and have a look at the Conflict in the Middle East board the poster has highlighted in their post.

But OP, you don't live in Germany, you only get second hand moaning from your family. I live in Germany, why don't you ask me my opinion?

Well, we have to keep posting our disgust at this sort of shit, otherwise the far right racists will simply be allowed to take over the site entirely. So I will keep commenting, but I'm not going to waste time and energy on engaging with people who are beyond the reach of rational argument, and I'm not going to add the advertising revenue of racist rags like the Daily Mail by clicking on your deliberately provocative links.

The far right showed us yet again last night in Southport who and what they are, showing utter contempt for the bereaved parents and for a community in shock. Forgive me if my patience for this shit is limited.

The poster was just politely asking what countries you have in your sights to emigrate to where you feel you may be persecuted.

Immigration isn’t a two way process if it was people wouldn’t bother moving. People generally move to places that give them safety, security and prosperity.

Of course you wouldn’t move somewhere that Christians are being persecuted but we aren’t discussing that. Please feel free to come over to the Conflict in the Middle East board to discuss the persecution of Christian Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank.