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To think descendants of slave owners should visit former plantations?

242 replies

rowernoke · 31/07/2024 06:32

Particularly if their family still has wealth earned through the atrocities of the slave trade and slavery?

For example, Laura Trevalyan visited former plantations in Grenada and met with local people to understand the role her ancestors played in the slave trade. She was so moved by this that she is now sponsoring education initiatives for those affected.

OP posts:
Fluufer · 31/07/2024 11:29

Scammersarescum · 31/07/2024 11:15

Don't be so ridiculous.

This is such a facile argument.

How would most people even know?

And no doubt are you just talking about the white descendents of slave owners? Or are you rolling in the north Africans who kidnapped whole villages of people from Cornwall or Wales.

What about the Russians. So many were enslaved that this is literally where the word slave comes from. Are you tracking the descendents of the ottomans etc who owned those slaves?

Or is this just another boring attempt at making white a pejorative word?

If you don't know, then you are probably not directly descended from wealthy slave owners. In which case OP is not talking about you.

MrTiddlesTheCat · 31/07/2024 11:29

There's an online database that lists everyone who owned slaves. At the time it was the norm for people to invest in them in the way they do with stocks and shares or property today. So someone living in Manchester might part own a slave in Jamaica as a means of funding their retirement, even though they'd never even been there.

You can search for your ancestors names on the database:
www.ucl.ac.uk/lbs/

NeverDropYourMooncup · 31/07/2024 11:27

Particularly if their family still has wealth

Well, unless you're proposing that the people who haven't got a penny of inherited wealth or privilege as a result of what happened 190+ years ago get a free holiday, it would have to be the wealthy ones, wouldn't it?

Bunnygirl1902 · 31/07/2024 11:25

Ponoka7 · 31/07/2024 07:00

It's more about why their generational wealth should possibly be shared. I'm not saying that I totally agree.
I don't know were our royal family and aristocracy would even start with that one.
I agree that we need to stop celebrating and admiring the hoarding of wealth, though.

Tell me you're a communist without telling me you're a communist 👀😂

SeeSeeRider · 31/07/2024 11:22

NutellaEllaElla · 31/07/2024 06:42

No one is responsible for the sins of their father.

No but it is gracious and decent to feel sorry about them (not 'for' them) and to want to try to make amends, especially if the father's or ancestor's sins have made them rich.

Scammersarescum · 31/07/2024 11:15

Don't be so ridiculous.

This is such a facile argument.

How would most people even know?

And no doubt are you just talking about the white descendents of slave owners? Or are you rolling in the north Africans who kidnapped whole villages of people from Cornwall or Wales.

What about the Russians. So many were enslaved that this is literally where the word slave comes from. Are you tracking the descendents of the ottomans etc who owned those slaves?

Or is this just another boring attempt at making white a pejorative word?

Itsjustmeheretoday · 31/07/2024 11:12

sixtyandsomething · 31/07/2024 10:52

It is probable that they do. The Vikings were in Africa. All modern Africans are descended from all people who were in Africa 2k ago..Yes of course there are other parts of the world other than Asia, Europe, the Americas and Africa. I said MOST of the world has Viking ancestry. Not ALL of the world has Viking ancestry

I suggest you improve your reading skills before criticising anyone else's areas of academic expertise.

That's not most of the world Hmm I also think if you think what is going on today in many parts of Africa as a direct result of colonialism is ok because 'modern Africans' might have some Viking genes Hmm

Alalalalalongalalalalalonglonglilong · 31/07/2024 11:10

Surely a much simpler answer to this rather ridiculous suggestion would be a less capitalist based and more socialist based society? Higher taxes for extreme wealth, more investment in public education, disability, housing etc and the various factors that contribute to intergenerational poverty.

Another relevant point to consider is the products we buy. For exame a rich person with inherited wealth buys high quality goods from an ethically sourced product, a poorer person buys a cheaper version made by a slave or indentured worker, who is morally better?

JudgeJ · 31/07/2024 11:08

Moonmelodies · 31/07/2024 10:58

The white slave traders bought the slaves at slave markets from their existing African owners.
Slavery was rife across Africa and had been for many centuries.
Mansa Musa, Emporer of Mali, famously took 12,000 of his personal slaves with him on his pilgrimage to Mecca.

Interesting that when I made a similar comment a few years ago I was put on the MN naughty step, does that mean we're becoming more realistic about the past?

Fluufer · 31/07/2024 11:07

JudgeJ · 31/07/2024 11:06

In WW2 the smart-looking Gestapo uniforms were designed and made by Hugo Boss, I wonder how many posters have bought their products without that knowledge?

Doesn't that just prove OPs point though, that understanding is important?

JudgeJ · 31/07/2024 11:06

Hateam · 31/07/2024 10:35

There were many industrialists who made fortunes exploiting the working class people (like my ancesters) in this country who have handed down their fortunes through the subsequent generations.

Should they tour abandoned coal mines and cotton mills?

In WW2 the smart-looking Gestapo uniforms were designed and made by Hugo Boss, I wonder how many posters have bought their products without that knowledge?

Itsjustmeheretoday · 31/07/2024 11:01

Velvetcatfur · 31/07/2024 10:44

That's already been done. I think compensation £££ is what's some people are after

I doubt it, reading most of these thread it's all about the justification that it's ok and not a big deal. It's not 'done' when the general consensus from what I can assume is mostly white people is that it's not a big deal because it happened a long time ago or because someone else did it too

peeweemermaid · 31/07/2024 10:59

No, but I do recommend visiting Rome because I am sure some of my forefathers were killed by those nasty abusive Italians c 2,000 years ago.

Moonmelodies · 31/07/2024 10:58

Velvetcatfur · 31/07/2024 10:28

In Africa there were Black people helping the White slavers .

The white slave traders bought the slaves at slave markets from their existing African owners.
Slavery was rife across Africa and had been for many centuries.
Mansa Musa, Emporer of Mali, famously took 12,000 of his personal slaves with him on his pilgrimage to Mecca.

sixtyandsomething · 31/07/2024 10:52

Itsjustmeheretoday · 31/07/2024 10:30

You realise there's other people in the world than what you've listed? I hope your genetics is as good as your geography and physics! And I don't think everyone in Africa has Viking genes even though I don't study genetics.

It is probable that they do. The Vikings were in Africa. All modern Africans are descended from all people who were in Africa 2k ago..Yes of course there are other parts of the world other than Asia, Europe, the Americas and Africa. I said MOST of the world has Viking ancestry. Not ALL of the world has Viking ancestry

I suggest you improve your reading skills before criticising anyone else's areas of academic expertise.

Kendodd · 31/07/2024 10:48

Hateam · 31/07/2024 10:35

There were many industrialists who made fortunes exploiting the working class people (like my ancesters) in this country who have handed down their fortunes through the subsequent generations.

Should they tour abandoned coal mines and cotton mills?

The people we should be angry with are industrialists now amassed fortunes while their workers (actually doing the work to make the money) live in poverty.

ACynicalDad · 31/07/2024 10:46

It has no value if it is forced, and the sins of the father. If someone chooses to do it, great.

Velvetcatfur · 31/07/2024 10:44

Itsjustmeheretoday · 31/07/2024 10:42

Here's a profound thought. Sometimes 'paying it back' can actually just mean an acknowledgement and/or apology. Rather than a justification of why something was ok or doesn't matter 🤷🏼‍♀️ worth having a think about

That's already been done. I think compensation £££ is what's some people are after

Itsjustmeheretoday · 31/07/2024 10:42

Here's a profound thought. Sometimes 'paying it back' can actually just mean an acknowledgement and/or apology. Rather than a justification of why something was ok or doesn't matter 🤷🏼‍♀️ worth having a think about

Hateam · 31/07/2024 10:35

Scarletrunner · 31/07/2024 09:44

But if they are still financially benefitting from it (in a big way judging by the huge stately homes they own) surely there’s no reason not to contribute something

There were many industrialists who made fortunes exploiting the working class people (like my ancesters) in this country who have handed down their fortunes through the subsequent generations.

Should they tour abandoned coal mines and cotton mills?

Itsjustmeheretoday · 31/07/2024 10:30

sixtyandsomething · 31/07/2024 09:15

Laughing at what you don't understand. I specialise in genetics. Everyone in East and West Europe, Everyone in Russia, Everyone in Africa, probably everyone in North America and central America, and most likely South America and Asia too

You realise there's other people in the world than what you've listed? I hope your genetics is as good as your geography and physics! And I don't think everyone in Africa has Viking genes even though I don't study genetics.

OtterMouse · 31/07/2024 10:29

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines.

Velvetcatfur · 31/07/2024 10:28

Kendodd · 31/07/2024 09:59

I was amazed to learn that some black people in the Caribbean also had black slaves. Where do their descendents go for atonement?

In Africa there were Black people helping the White slavers .

Velvetcatfur · 31/07/2024 10:25

Why don't people focus on modern day slavery instead focusing on the past . The past is gone , all those people are dead and gone . Why not focus on the living slaves,and focusing their energy and doing something about that .

NewGreenDuck · 31/07/2024 10:24

Or the Viking bit could actually be a Norman. My granny had a surname which is a typical Norman name. I think that's where my Scandinavian DNA comes from.

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